POOLER/SAN Stunning generosity

[mantkinth]

Hello Pooler, interesting toy you've got here.

At the moment i'm using my crappy skills to try to implement the hedging idea, abiet without the chandiler ATR trailing. I believe I got the gist of the code working, but now running into problems, of the hegde trades being closed, but not the normal trades >< (following your strategy 2, they should all close the same time)

I'm pretty sure its due to the spread of the tp that needs to be taken into account for the sell limit orders and sell stop orders.

[Pooler]

In your example above you only just hit level 7 TP.

One way you could lower you risk is to aim for breakeven instead of shooting for a profit, this would have lowered your TP price. This would lower your risk a bit. This element could be added if perhaps you get past a certain level eg level 5 in which case you are happy to get out of the trade at breakeven. You could even get out at a predefined loss after a certain level eg level 7 or 8 to further lower your risk.

Just some thoughts.

Thanks,

I have tried that before and it is an option but changing the TP% to 0 when reaching the higher levels (5-6 onwards) makes very little difference to where the TP moves. Taking a loss tends to kill your equity as you're shooting for small Take Profits.

Strat 2 overlaid on Strat 1 solves this problem. I'll be posting soon.

[Pooler]

Are you using stop losses then?

No, but I'm using a profit size of 250% per level, taking the approach of "let your profits run".[/quote]

Anpar,

250%? Is that a total of all 10 levels?[/quote]

Yes sir, another thing is I trade it on 4hr charts, trades more often.[/quote]

More often than 15min T/F? What are your session times set at?

[Anpar]

Are you using stop losses then?

No, but I'm using a profit size of 250% per level, taking the approach of "let your profits run".

Anpar,

250%? Is that a total of all 10 levels?[/quote]

Yes sir, another thing is I trade it on 4hr charts, trades more often.[/quote]

More often than 15min T/F? What are your session times set at?[/quote]


The session times are the default times as outlined by you, no change here. I will post my set file later once I'm back at my PC.

[Pooler]

As promised here is Strat 2.

I manually placed a Sell Stop every time the EA opened a Buy Limit--but only .01 Lot on each level. This strategy uses an aggressive trailing stop to profit. Stop loss is the same for each trade.
I used the Chandelier Exit (ATR 2 setting) Trailing Stop or the TP of Strat 1. Move Stop Loss to whichever of these 2 is closest to price.

As per EurJpy chart of Strat 1. Simply overlay Strat 2 on Strat 1

1st sell trade Stop Loss at Buy TP (103.106). Then trail thereafter.

Strat 2 Trade 1-4 hit trailing Chandelier Stop Loss at profit of 114.6 pips. Price did not hit TP in Strat 1 and dropped further to fill level 5 Buy which meant another Strat 2 Sell opened (at .01 lot).
The aim is twofold- 1) to end in profit when you add the total of all the trades of both strategies or 2) worst result is break even. It achieves the stated aim of every trading literature I've ever read--make as much profit as you can while minimising your losses. This cuts out your losses and reduces the draw down by half.

See results below.

Strat 2 (using Chandelier and Strat 1 TP as Trail SL ) meant that trade 5 closed at a loss of -20.9 pips and 6 and 7 at total loss of -23.8 pips. However the total of all 7 Strat 2 trades ended in profit of 69.9 pips when strat 1 eventually closed at profit of 16.8 pips. Total of both strat 1 and 2 total profit of 69.9 pips

However, If I did not use the chandelier exit trailing stop and only moved SL as Strat 1 TP moved then the profit increases to 222.4 pips. See spreadsheets I pasted below. (I've also attached as they don't display very well below)


Strategy 1

Level Open Time Type Size Item Price S / L T / P Close Time Price Commission Taxes Swap Pips
1 2012.11.07 13:36 buy 0.01 eurjpy 102.836 0 101.642 2012.11.09 05:05 101.642 0 0 -0.03 -119.4
2 2012.11.07 14:06 buy 0.02 eurjpy 102.536 0 101.642 2012.11.09 05:05 101.642 0 0 -0.05 -178.8
3 2012.11.07 14:22 buy 0.03 eurjpy 102.236 0 101.642 2012.11.09 05:05 101.642 0 0 -0.08 -178.2
4 2012.11.07 16:02 buy 0.04 eurjpy 101.936 0 101.642 2012.11.09 05:05 101.642 0 0 -0.11 -117.6
5 2012.11.08 15:34 buy 0.05 eurjpy 101.636 0 101.642 2012.11.09 05:05 101.642 0 0 -0.03 3
6 2012.11.08 20:04 buy 0.06 eurjpy 101.336 0 101.642 2012.11.09 05:05 101.642 0 0 -0.04 183.6
7 2012.11.08 20:27 buy 0.07 eurjpy 101.036 0 101.642 2012.11.09 05:05 101.642 0 0 -0.04 424.2
Total 16.8

Strategy 2

Using best of Chandelier and Strat 1 TP
Trade Open Time Type Size Item Price S / L T / P Close Time Price Commission Taxes Swap Pips
1 2012.11.07 13:35 sell 0.01 eurjpy 102.836 102.099 0 2012.11.07 20:46 102.049 0 0 0 73.7
2 2012.11.07 14:06 sell 0.01 eurjpy 102.534 102.099 0 2012.11.07 20:46 102.053 0 0 0 43.5
3 2012.11.07 14:22 sell 0.01 eurjpy 102.236 102.099 0 2012.11.07 20:46 102.053 0 0 0 13.7
4 2012.11.07 16:02 sell 0.01 eurjpy 101.936 102.099 0 2012.11.07 20:46 102.047 0 0 0 -16.3
5 2012.11.08 15:34 sell 0.01 eurjpy 101.636 101.845 0 2012.11.08 15:45 101.848 0 0 0 -20.9
6 2012.11.08 20:04 sell 0.01 eurjpy 101.336 101.305 0 2012.11.08 20:45 101.305 0 0 0 3.1
7 2012.11.08 20:27 sell 0.01 eurjpy 101.036 101.305 2012.11.09 05:05 101.642 0 0 0 -26.9 Overall Plus strat 1
Total 69.9 Total 86.7
Using Strat 1 TP only
Trade Open Time Type Size Item Price S / L T / P Close Time Price Commission Taxes Swap Pips
1 2012.11.07 13:35 sell 0.01 eurjpy 102.836 101.642 0 2012.11.07 20:46 102.049 0 0 0 119.4
2 2012.11.07 14:06 sell 0.01 eurjpy 102.534 101.642 0 2012.11.07 20:46 102.053 0 0 0 89.2
3 2012.11.07 14:22 sell 0.01 eurjpy 102.236 101.642 0 2012.11.07 20:46 102.053 0 0 0 59.4
4 2012.11.07 16:02 sell 0.01 eurjpy 101.936 101.642 0 2012.11.07 20:46 102.047 0 0 0 29.4
5 2012.11.08 15:34 sell 0.01 eurjpy 101.636 101.642 0 2012.11.08 15:45 101.848 0 0 0 -0.6
6 2012.11.08 20:04 sell 0.01 eurjpy 101.336 101.642 0 2012.11.08 20:45 101.305 0 0 0 -30.6
7 2012.11.08 20:27 sell 0.01 eurjpy 101.036 101.642 2012.11.09 05:05 101.642 0 0 0 -60.6 Overall Plus strat 1
Total 205.6 Total 222.4



The problem at this stage is it just sounds too good to be true. I'm not saying this is perfect yet as I'm sure with more testing and by tweaking both strategies you can make even more pips than what my limited effort has managed so far. This needs to be coded into the existing EA with the option of using Chand exit or Strat 1 TP to see which will be more profitable because adding trades manually and monitoring them on the 15min t/f in a fast moving market is impossible. Person has to kip (sleep) now and again.

I believe I've created a template for something very profitable here and it's for free. Please assist with demoing this week so we can get as many results as possible....I'm positive with all the keen minds here we can do this.

Cheers

Philip

[Forexman1972]

The problem with this is you are giving up having a first successful trade by buying and selling at the same price. What happens if you get a profit at level 1 because the currency moves up, you then have a loss on strategy 2. It assume you mean from you close the trade down at break even?

Would it be better if you strategy 2 at say level 2. It all depends on what your win % is for level 1. If its say 50% you are giving up a lot of easy money.

[mantkinth]

Ive managed to program the strategy 2, using strategy 1 tp, and yes it works out well if it retraces back.

The problem i see with using chandiler with strategy 1 tp is that if the hedge gets with the chandlier, what is the guarantee that the normal trades will also close? what if it doesnt hit the TP of the remaining normal trades, and keep going against you? you'd of lost your hedges and your margin used will increase.

Either way the problem is with programing stategy 2 with the TP of strategy 1, is basically getting them to close at the same time ><

Just my 2 cents

Edit: Ugh like i expected, its been hell trying to get a limit order and a opposite stop order to trigger at the same time at the same price need to fix that in order for the hedging method to work, any programmers know of a way?

[Pooler]

Ive managed to program the strategy 2, using strategy 1 tp, and yes it works out well if it retraces back.

The problem i see with using chandiler with strategy 1 tp is that if the hedge gets with the chandlier, what is the guarantee that the normal trades will also close? what if it doesnt hit the TP of the remaining normal trades, and keep going against you? you'd of lost your hedges and your margin used will increase.

Either way the problem is with programing stategy 2 with the TP of strategy 1, is basically getting them to close at the same time ><

Just my 2 cents

Edit: Ugh like i expected, its been hell trying to get a limit order and a opposite stop order to trigger at the same time at the same price need to fix that in order for the hedging method to work, any programmers know of a way?

Same here. The Sell Stop must take spread into consideration as per Ask/Bid price. Did you get my pm? I'm demoing some pairs buts hectic doing it manually

[mantkinth]

I havent got your pm pooler.

Ive taken into consideration the spread for the buy stop and limit buy orders, when setting it up, but the problem is that spread changes. I've been thinking about if a normal strategy is opened, immedietly open a 0.01 trade in the opposite direction at market value. But still then we will get differences. I suppose if the spread for the pair isn't that big, its not that much of a problem

I'm not worried about the TP for the normal strategy, as I can program if that if a TP is hit (aka trade is closed, i can force closure of all the hedge orders if any).
I'm also not worried about the SL being hit of the hedge trades, as I can do the same thing for the normal orders and force a close. (might lose pips due to speed of closure etc but shouldnt be too bad)

[Pooler]

Thanks Mantkinth,

I'm busy demoing with moving Stop loss according to lowest of TP or Chandelier.

Lets see whats best