FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Discuss potential trading platforms to replace Empty4.
Post your assessments of alternatives that you have tried.
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boldtrader
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FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Post by boldtrader »

Hi Team.

In reviewing everyone's comments regarding alternative platforms, I greatly understand the frustrations of Empty4 and the relentless actions of crims. What I would not like to experience is even greater frustrations which I believe you will incur with Ctrader.

My goal with this combined, lengthy write up is to seriously keep you focused on trading and sharing with you what works for me, what I found does not work and concerns I have as a professional trader and business owner in the industry for 16 years. I will provide full disclosure in this writeup.

Anyone interested in duplicating the setup, I will be happy to assist if possible. You may not agree with my comments here or even desire to use the same setup; If you decide to move forward on testing cTrader, I wish you much success. However, I hope that you will at least look at the overall picture of not just the platform but also toward the LQ provider.

I am providing this write up because I hope not to see members here use valuable time towards a program which, in my opinion, I do not believe in and consider not to be a best choice of use.

I am providing my analysis of cTrader here by permission:
CtraderAnalysis.pdf
When reviewing the analysis, keep in mind it was developed from a business perspective. I personally would not use the platform for business or as a retail trader.

I do agree that all the time spent on developing ea's and indi's in Empty4 should not be set aside either. Just as many of you here, I have thousands of hours invested in coding, frustrations of trial and error and certainly financial costs involved in development.

I had written much information on an earlier thread started by Slowkey and would like to bring that review here along with a full scale analysis of Ctrader, thus some of this you may have already read previously.

Overall, I will not use cTrader. My reasons are in the analysis attached. What does work for me now (not to say it will not change in the future) is FSB and FST. Is there another alternative, certainly. However, my costs are best using FSB and FST connected to Empty4. I personally will advise that I don't have any problems or issues with Empty4. I do believe that is because I have a broker who goes all out to support their customers and makes sure that issues are minimal. I use very sophisticated algos and they execute cleanly and timely on the Empty4 account.

I have been using FSB software for several years. I have it connected to multiple Empty4 accounts using multiple strategies. The process I use is to collect the tick data from my broker, ATCBrokers, into a separate database, then upload into FSB; The tick data is converted using a separate program and process. It takes a bit of work, but is extremely accurate. After All, since there is no centralized data exchange for FX, the data I do use, I want to make sure it is clean.

Note: ATCBrokers uses a wholesale ECN data feed from FXCM and is very clean and low cost based on negotiated volume. In most trade conditions, I have zero spreads or very narrow spreads (I use 0.4-0.6 for EU). I have had zero issues with the data or ATCBrokers. They have a great support system and the owner and the staff are very helpful and friendly. Never an issue with withdrawals and scalping is allowed with no minimal time period required for being in a position. Additionally they have an "MKT" feed (WYSIWYG).

I support a large global group of prop traders as their Head Market Analyst, Chief Trader and Strategy Developer, and have found ATCBrokers to have very good business operations supporting International and domestic accounts. They are in the process of becoming their own clearing house which will allow for reduction in clearing costs. I do not work for them and have had accounts with them now for about 6 years. Their tech team also developed a very cool Advanced 'one click' Order Entry window which will allow for multi-leg trading with preset stop, trail, b/e, and TP values. It is the primary tool our traders use for manual scalping.

You can upload Empty4 HST data files directly from Empty4 into FSB. Just make sure you have clean data from your broker and not downloaded from the meta history server. That data is not usable and has many missing bars. I am able to account for my broker's spreads (0.4-0.6 on EU as an example), along with slippage (minimal at best) within FSB and FST. I run new weekly data prior to each Sunday session to check for any variances in volatility and other market conditions/anomalies which may affect my strategies. I then compare the weekly results with historical results for any changes in volatility trends. My strategies are developed with settings for trade signals being issued at the opening of the bar. Curve fitting is not an issue. By the way, the testing I do on FSB can not be done on cTrader.

Alternatively, you can import tick data from TrueFX.com and others, and then make adjustments to variables such as spread, slippage and commission (if any). The risk you run using other tick data is that the data will not be the same as your broker's data since there is no centralized exchange. However, using other's tick data will give you a baseline overview to work with.

Empty4 ea's and indicators must be re-written in C# and are not portable to FSB. There are, however, multiple indi's already written which are similar to Empty4 indi's. They use a different term for indicators of higher time periods, "HTF" = Higher Time Frame", which allows for testing for higher time periods from lower time periods. It beats Empty4 backtester hands down and can give insights into your strategies not seen from Empty4. FSB recently developed a new pro version, however, not all functions are available.

Once the strategies are completed in FSB, the strategy file is ported to the FST software (Forex Strategy Trader) which is connected to your Empty4 platform for auto trade execution into your Empty4 account.

You can automate multiple strategies to run simultaneous using magic numbers and assign unique instance numbers to each strategie to run in one Empty4 instance, or run in separate instances using multiple instances of FST.

What is also very advantageous to this program is FSB will allow you to make adjustments to strategies using filters such as sharpe ratio, minimize ambiguous bars, cut off bad data, maximum dd %, and other criteria. Example, you may find that the volatility on the EURUSD has increased over the past week and using your normal stop settings on your ea or strategy has been getting hit too much. Using FSB you can "dial" up or down your stop level to improve results. This is not readily done in Empty4 or cTrader. In FSB, it only takes a few minutes to run the scans. I do consider myself to be well versed in the program and its abilities and operation. For additional insights and diagnostics of your strategies, connect the Empty4 account to programs such as MT4i.com or MyFXBook.com.

As I had previously written, for many reasons we chose NOT to use cTrader. cBroker allows for an aggregate of net equity to be constantly displayed showing Broker's risk. When risk parameters are met, Broker can run the position, or decide to offset. Didn't like the ability for crims to manipulate trades via the a/b book among other reasons, nor the incompatibility to Empty4. We discovered a long list of reasons against ctrader and have chosen not to use it. One big issue we found was a data stall, particularly on Yen pairs. The yen pairs particularly seem to jump a lot. I cannot monitor spreads on cTrader as I can with Empty4.

Also as I had previously discussed, for myself and our program purposes, the primary focus was 1)ability to have proper back testing with true accountability and reliability; 2) ability for platform to be deployed to large groups under a proprietary system for prop traders, 3) ability to deploy quickly with minimal learning curve. Our experience had to be geared to new traders with limited or zero experience who could be trading within 3-5 weeks on a system with minimal market experience requirements. Deployment required DLL security with permissioned dbase on redundant servers for backup. Running in C# or C++ meets our needs.

The secondary aspect that was most important was obviously the data feed and support provider. I tested and reviewed the major providers of data vs costs vs support vs platform vs latency, and several other criteria.

After making our selection, the only final requirement was to find an open source application to meet our needs for backtesting and execution. FSB and FST meets our criteria, and is scalable to 1000's of global prop traders. Once FST is connected to Empty4, the signals can be opted in by global prop traders, or can be sent via Empty4 provider's back-office trade copier application or can be connected to external server used for trade copier application. In our case, the Empty4 provider built a custom application for trade management for monitoring large groups of traders. An additional trade management alternative is Steve's invaluable MPTM program which can be placed on the primary Empty4 account for additional TM control. That is not available for cTrader.

Instead of building a new wheel, at least at this time, we decided to make a current wheel more efficient. I am aware of a new FOREX platform being built which uses the FIX API provided by my current Empty4 provider. One thing to note, when selecting my Empty4 provider, I did so based on a few criteria which I have written about here in other forums. Of particular interest was the ability for me to contact the owner directly; skype support; email support; no modules on Empty4 server; narrow spreads; no markup; and other criteria. Once the provider was selected, then the ability to back test the data was next and then execution.

Regarding execution, servers and pipeline became most important with clearing server to be near quote server and pipeline had to be able to handle 50,000 transactions per second, burstable. We didn't want to see trade execution errors whereby simultaneous executions would fail due to server issues.

Additional advantages included the ability to trade on a true Market Data Feed (WYSIWYG) and having a demo feed with quotes the same as live feed quotes. Having both the same makes backtesting more reliable. When both are the same, the primary concern becomes any slippage which may occur and that can be accounted for within the FSB/FST currency market charges.

While the above configuration and criteria may not be for everyone, it is rather easily deployed and greatly facilitates the ability perform reliable testing. Additionally, from a group standpoint, one the configuration was set up, it is easy to add traders onto the system.

A huge concern of using cTrader is the data provider and who will clear the trades and what games they will play (and they will play them since they have the a/b book capabilities). To me, that takes me back to the beginning forcing me to start over, which begins with trust of the data. Since I feel I have solved that issue and trust my broker/LQ/Quote provider, my focus is towards simply writing to FSB. cTrader has lots of bells and whistles that in my professional opinion as a coder and professional trader simply miss the mark and don't meet my needs.

I am extremely busy throughout the day and rarely have time to post. However, if I can help anyone with questions on the use, please feel free to ask. Hope this helps.

Best regards,


William F Young II (Bill) aka boldtrader
Director, GoFX, Inc.
Market Timing Specialist
Chief Market Analyst
Data Specialist

[email protected]
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wfyoung2/
Miami, FL.
786-361-8367

Bio:

I am a frequent speaker for workshops, tradeshows, industry author, etc for more than 16 years, and a former top FOREX producer for major Chicago Futures and FX firm.

Provided Market Analysis Services to thousands of active traders, Institutional Fund Managers with Fund Assets of more than $600 Million, in-house Bank Traders and have worked on Joint Venture with one of the oldest and largest Asset Management firms in London.

I provide live market commentary and Forex services to large prop groups we have partnered with around the globe using 2 indicators (systems) I developed over many years. The prop group manual trading system alerts to a change in market direction in advance and is combined with several additional techniques such as GANN Octaves, Fibs, Market Structure Trade (MST) and Dynamic Linear Regression Techniques. I am a voracious study of GANN principles with a strong interest in their application toward universal laws of market principles.
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Re: FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Post by Buzzbee »

FSB being Popov's FOREX STRATEGY BUILDER and FST being his FOREX STRATEGY TRADER project? Spotware's CTRADER is here. Thank you for sharing your insights with us, Bill !!
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Re: FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Post by Radar »

Hey Boldtrader,

That's quite a good system you've got going there :) I have to ask, though, why do you think it's a question of FSB + FST versus cTrader? It's really a question of ClientApp_A versus ClientApp_B.

I use FSB and FST too, (though I don't have anywhere near as much experience with them as you do), and FST doesn't work too well if you don't have a bridge to the client app ;)

Currently, there two client-app bridges available for FST: Miroslav's EA and DLL combo for Empty4, and ttorhcs' jforex FST bridge, (see http://forexsb.com/forum/topic/3843/jforex-fst-bridge/ for details). Miroslav has also said that he would help with a bridge to cTrader/cAlgo (see http://forexsb.com/forum/post/20048/#p20048 ).

Since we now have one (soon to be two) alternative client apps that FST can work with, we can get back to the main issue of MegaDopes' Empty4 versus cTrader/cAlgo.

The most important question for us shilling and pence traders is whether we can easily export historical data from cTrader/cAlgo (or jforex, or any other client app) in a format that FSB can use. The next question is "How easy is it to connect to my client app?".

As for the problems with data freezing, slippage, and mis-quotes, they occur on all platforms at some time or another, it's just the nature of the business. The problem is, MegaDopes have plug-ins to their server that generates these issues to help bucketshops take more of our money, (I'll hazard a guess, and say that MegaDopes gets a percentage of profits generated with their plug-ins, rather than just volume based fees).

Have to run :( Have to go back to the daily grind :(

Have fun!

Radar =8^)
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Re: FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Post by scheinwerfer »

A few comments:
They use a different term for indicators of higher time periods, "HTF" = Higher Time Frame", which allows for testing for higher time periods from lower time periods.
It's WTF actually, there are HTF indis but they do not work properly. Users with less experience should really leave HTF indis alone. Bill, if you can, correct your post in this respect. Thank you!
whether we can easily export historical data from cTrader/cAlgo (or jforex, or any other client app) in a format that FSB can use.
FSB uses OHLCV format, it recognizes OLHCV, too. It's not rocket science to open data files in a spreadsheet and edit the columns to the FSB's standard. It's an extra operation, but it doesn't rob that much time. In this sense it is easily done whatever the data source :)
Instead of building a new wheel, at least at this time, we decided to make a current wheel more efficient.
Golden words! Everyone is trying to come up with own solutions, constant searching going on, then there are wide appeals to abandon everything what has been done before and start again from scratch, not to mention a call and funding for visual and virtual testers where "the precise testing is not the primary use case for this kind of tools"... We ought to make a current wheel more efficient, instead of re-inventing it and going round in circles!

Bill, thank you for your time in making this comprehensive review.
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Re: FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Post by SteveHopwood »

I have added this thread to my weekly round-up for Sunday night. Thanks for posting, Bill.

:D
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Re: FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Post by slowkey »

Popov will be releasing FSB 3.0 soon with many new features. I will be doing many short videos on the new version when it comes out in collaboration with Popov and members of the FSB community. I appreciate Boldtraders comments. FSB is a robust and powerful program and I am committed to promoting its possibilities in trading. I hope to compile comprehensive video help to the functioning of the program.
Doug
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Re: FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Post by TraderDesk »

slowkey wrote:Popov will be releasing FSB 3.0 soon with many new features. I will be doing many short videos on the new version when it comes out in collaboration with Popov and members of the FSB community. I appreciate Boldtraders comments. FSB is a robust and powerful program and I am committed to promoting its possibilities in trading. I hope to compile comprehensive video help to the functioning of the program.
Doug
Doug,

I have following this thread. Your active help in the videos makes it much easier to use the software and I really appreciate the time and energy you bring...

Thanks...
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slowkey
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Re: FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Post by slowkey »

TraderDesk wrote:
slowkey wrote:Popov will be releasing FSB 3.0 soon with many new features. I will be doing many short videos on the new version when it comes out in collaboration with Popov and members of the FSB community. I appreciate Boldtraders comments. FSB is a robust and powerful program and I am committed to promoting its possibilities in trading. I hope to compile comprehensive video help to the functioning of the program.
Doug
Doug,

I have following this thread. Your active help in the videos makes it much easier to use the software and I really appreciate the time and energy you bring...

Thanks...
I am glad you have found the videos helpful. It is a deep program but that is what makes it powerful. The changes in the generator are very significant with many new sorts based on things like sharp ratio, win/loss ratio, geometric holding period return and many more. I have started to learn C# because actually being able to adapt software to your own needs is great. A very nice thing about open source. :D
Doug
The Gann Ribbons ... A new tool for looking at Time Periods, Price and Dynamic S/R in any system.

Now using HGI on 60 minutes and up & 10.7 with Hurst Targets intraday.
Bob's HGI Fourm
http://www.stevehopwoodforex.com/phpBB3 ... =38&t=3524


"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."

Albert Einstein
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Re: FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Post by boldtrader »

slowkey wrote:
TraderDesk wrote:
slowkey wrote:Popov will be releasing FSB 3.0 soon with many new features. I will be doing many short videos on the new version when it comes out in collaboration with Popov and members of the FSB community. I appreciate Boldtraders comments. FSB is a robust and powerful program and I am committed to promoting its possibilities in trading. I hope to compile comprehensive video help to the functioning of the program.
Doug
Doug,

I have following this thread. Your active help in the videos makes it much easier to use the software and I really appreciate the time and energy you bring...

Thanks...
I am glad you have found the videos helpful. It is a deep program but that is what makes it powerful. The changes in the generator are very significant with many new sorts based on things like sharp ratio, win/loss ratio, geometric holding period return and many more. I have started to learn C# because actually being able to adapt software to your own needs is great. A very nice thing about open source. :D
Doug
Slowkey,

C# with open source, and learning to do for yourself is the way to go. Definitely worth the time and effort to learn. You become more knowledgeable and more valuable to yourself and to others. Great skills to have. Keep moving forward, never look back.. If I can assist, please don't hesitate to ask.

Pips & Blessings to all..
You have everything to gain, and I promise.. I will change the way you trade.. I guarantee it. Free FX1 Trade room using Skype
http://goforexpro.com/ForexCenterLogin.php
Connect with me on Skype: GoFXPro.com

"Make Your 20, Bank Your Money"... WFY II

"IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PIPS, 'BOUT THE PIPS".. LETS ROCK..
"Take The Pips and Run...!"
Connect with me on Skype: GoFXPro.com

Rule # 34: God loves you because of who God is, not because of anything you did or didn't do.
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Re: FSB and FST vs Ctrader

Post by slowkey »

Slowkey,

C# with open source, and learning to do for yourself is the way to go. Definitely worth the time and effort to learn. You become more knowledgeable and more valuable to yourself and to others. Great skills to have. Keep moving forward, never look back.. If I can assist, please don't hesitate to ask.

Pips & Blessings to all..
Thanks Bill,
At 60 I am retired and up until about 6 years ago my view of life was more shaped by reading Henry David Thoreau when I was young than financial incentive. I worked 21 years in an ICU as a critical care nurse before stepping aside to do supervision. However when the Economy spiraled down and I needed to retire do to health issues I started reading about economics and than investing which led me to forex. It keeps my mind sharp and it beats the casino. :lol: They just opened one 7.1 miles from my front door about 3 weeks ago.

However that is not the whole story. For about the last 25 years I have built my own computers and played with every operating system know to man. So my incentive is now back to pick back up where I started with programming before I had the health issues.

I will be trading the nadex manually from here on out and forex automatically with FST.

Nadex is a fantastic exchange for the retail trader. Extremely impressed with it on demo. Very defined risk. Complete transparency. No broker. No stop outs. CFTC regulated just like the CME. Completely fair unlike the bucket shops. Designed from the ground up for the retail trader. Total risk is know before you enter a trade.

Hope to scale up trading with FST-FSB over time as I learn more about the program and developing strategies. Feel free to add any comments as we start to build the video help section under Dougs Video Project in the FSB forum at forexfb.com. I hope to get started sometime in July as version 3.0 is released.
Doug
The Gann Ribbons ... A new tool for looking at Time Periods, Price and Dynamic S/R in any system.

Now using HGI on 60 minutes and up & 10.7 with Hurst Targets intraday.
Bob's HGI Fourm
http://www.stevehopwoodforex.com/phpBB3 ... =38&t=3524


"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."

Albert Einstein
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