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| Symphonie variant https://www.stevehopwoodforex.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=492 |
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| Author: | SteveHopwood [ Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Symphonie variant |
Too much information George.  Ok, so the kids don't know me, but kids can never have too many bday wishes, so tell them Happy Birthday from me. Enjoy the party and hang on to their childhood for as long as you can. As every parent with grown-up children will confirm, childhood does not last for long. And if the bday parties are not your own kids', then wish them hb from me anyhow. Kids is kids and I adore them all.  |
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| Author: | cuzgeorge [ Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Symphonie variant |
Hi Steve, Sheeezz i got too exited there for a second, hehe. Thank you for the wishes, they are a friends kids from school and will wish them of-course. kind regards and will get back to you later with at least one set ready, probably the BUY EA, for you to check before i post and maybe make a fool of myself, hehe. regards and hope you have a good rest today. Cuzgeorge |
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| Author: | cuzgeorge [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Symphonie variant |
Hi Steve, all, here is the latest on the Symphonie variant and where i think this is headed. attached, are 3 pics.(pics are mixed up after Uploading, but you'll figure them out i'm sure) The first is the EA i'm dropping out of my testing, the 240:60 TF, 3 trades highlighted for the week, and 2 are losers and one small win. It's obviously confirming what slowkey was saying that he could'nt get the higher TF's to work either, and while i have'nt climbed into butchering a perfectly written EA, i have made some subtle changes to normal settings accessible by all. the second pic is of the normal settings i'm experimenting with now, also highlighted that all should be playing with, and the 3rd pic, is the AA section i have started experimenting with using method '13' first. These are the settings i'm using at the moment. Please don't make all your charts like this, try something different and we'll all report back here with each's own results to get to a good solution. you'll notice in the first pic that there are some decent wins in the 60:30 TF's and this is the general pattern with my results so far. 60:15 is also good, but 60:5 is too quick to get me out of a position and often the position closes WAAAy too early. This is the human part of symphonie, why you felt you had to stay in, even if everything seemed to be moving differently to what the chart showed, that trader instinct, maybe a bit of a gambler, but the part that seperates the normal guy in the street and the wall street trader. There is method in Eval's madness, so i'm back to the drawing board and headed for Eval's forum again to refresh. Firstly, using the higher TF's to get a trend, Nbob, RSI, AA, anything, just get a trend. Then , wait for the indis to match this trend, and the EA will take the correct position, no problemo this far. Secondly, The Human Factor, The most frustrating part of watching the charts, is seeing all the indicators lining up , the EA takes the position correctly, moves into a small profit, just before BE , but the market reverses and the position closes at SL. DAMN!, then, we change BE to get in closer, so wedont lose too much if the market turns , the EA gets into position correctly again, and then moves nicely into profit, and then gets caught by the trailing stop before moving into the stratosphere like it did yesterday and today, with-out me being on the saddle  . Manually, i saw the trades and saw the movement happening as Eval describes, but the EA always gets caught out by the settings i use. I know it sounds so easy to fix, but please try, a set for yourself, on any TF and ANY currency.(Eval sticks to EURUSD from what i can understand) It's not the EA or the method, IT'S THE HUMAN ELEMENT and i can't replicate here yet. The solution guys, is in the settings Steve has allowed, over and above Eval's indis. Friday was all long, today almost all south. Check the 1HR charts, but my results are nowhere near what they would have been if i were trading manually. If we set the settings too loose or wide apart, we lose a helluva lot by the time the EA wakes up. if too tight, the horse throws us off the saddle and trots away with out us. It's somewhere in the middle. Fridays trade was probably 2 or 3 trades manually on EURUSD. One trade going long all day if you pack big KahoneS. Today was almost a reverse, so it's not how many times the EA trades, but getting us in position, which it can do right now, and then moving on from here is where i'm lost. HELP! regards and hope my 25cents today ,make that a full dollar, did'nt bore the cr@p out of you, thanks for reading, cuz |
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| Author: | SteveHopwood [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Symphonie variant |
George, when I first stumbled across FF in 2006, I saw a thread entitled '20 pips a day' or somesuch. I thought, "Pah. Phoey. I can do better than 20 pips a day." What an idiot. I reckon that if I had made 20 pips a day since then and compounded even a small starting balance:
I have no faith whatsoever in Symphonie either as a system or as an EA; it requires far too many pretty-coloured thingies to line up before a trade triggers for me to become enthusiastic about it. I reckon it is doomed to failure in the long run. Eval, if you are reading I don't care if you object; that is what I think. So, George, imagine you can find a way of making a couple of pairs make a profit of 10 pips each a day? Long term? How rich do you want to be? And if you can three or four pairs to do the same? How filthily rich do you want to be? |
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| Author: | cuzgeorge [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Symphonie variant |
Thanks for the quick reply Steve. This is the problem, a while back i was ranting about a ranging market and how we must find a way to avoid it and almost suggested adding ANOTHER thingy. Well, my targets were very low at the time, if i remember correctly, between 5 and 15 pips. I really like that. I never wanted to go for the 30 or 100 pips, I like the action and the guerrilla tactic . Besides Slowkey was testing the higher TF's and the longer pip positions at the time. The problem with my short positions is, the markets range too much for too long. then we get small losses trying to make smaller profit. in the mean-time, the crims are making a killing on all the positions being taken and even though we get in towards the right direction, getting through the spread becomes a head-ache alone. i'd lose about 50 pips in all incuding the spreads on the positions while ranging. Then, the market would move for about 100 pips, but with Symphonie, you only meant to get the 'meat' that Eval speaks of, so realistically i would end up with about 20 of that until i hit my TP. This would be the big win in the movement. Then, the EA would take a second position as the market would still be moving in the same direction. by the time this happened, and we got through the spread again, we would be at the end of the full 100pip move and i would be sitting with a small profit on the last position, still losing overall though, and that too would eventually SL at a small loss again. SO in the end, i would be negative at the end of the session, even though your EA is getting in at the right time, already a great achievemnet with almost standard settings. I added 'TRUE" to trade multiple positions, this would drastically improve the results on a winning move like above, but the risk on DD and margin call on small accounts, (REAL accounts, not the 100K demos we all use), is massive. Then when the market would range again, the screen would be red all over, all small losses, but adding up with the spread.I Dont think i would risk that on my real accounts YET! if there's anything left of them by tomorrow morning. so back to what Eval had suggested, stay out of the markets and trade the euro session with US and maybe, maybe, till the end of the US session, but i don't think he trades that long either. I still found way too many stagnant periods where the choppiness would cause lots of small losses, which really added up. Lets stick to his 30 pips and 60:5, but that also created more headaches, and less trades, and i just could'nt even get some of the currencies to make ANY trades. don't know why still.??? I cant recall any of the demos to point it out to you, but it really happens often and cant seem to adapt the EA via the settings to avoid this period. Manually it's easy to stay out of, FF has the news time table and we can make a semi-consciouse (haha) decision about staying out. it's no rocket science stuff. The symphonie indis can easily show a ranging market and i use megadroid on the live accounts too that shows if you have an uptrend or downward movement on the EURUSD. Down on the Euro so UP on the USDCHF and so on. But getting the EA to recognise the pattern, or the slowness of the markets movement is tricky. I accept there will be losses, but i really think you've written the best possible version for Symphonie and the fore-sight you had to include the extras from other EA's and even the AA indi is brilliant. It allows for more options with out compromising the Synphonie system, that i really think works. I've used it successfully Steve and i'm not a full time trader and have absolutley no prior experience with trading. Thats why i like indis so much, typical noob! or newb or whatever . Hurt my back one day and i could'nt get my work done and thought , what now? what if? etc etc. I panicked a bit, found forex trading , symphonie, a few efriends here and there, and went on to make some serious cash. Just to blow it again literally the next day. Thats when i started looking for an EA as my 'trading plan' all the books speak of, and this name 'stevehopwood' kept popping up, damn that guy was everywhere. TAP TAP.!! I'm not trying to be a billionaire, i'm really enjoying this and would love the extra income, and in a small way help others avoid the trap i fell into. I'm openly showing how i'm losing another boat load of cash on my live accounts, but hey, its also fun right now, and i believe we going to get a winner here, give it some time, depends how many can add their time and help along. The answer is in the settings Steve, wont be as good as manual trading, (maybe), but this EA doens'nt need to sleep and who would'nt like to wake up with a cup of kwoffee and check the account balance up another $100 or so. More than enough. Compounded, daily, phew, we'll be visiting each other's countries on the hopwood airlines, with our mistresses coming along for the ride too!!!! hehe. dreams!!!! My wife's going to kill me if she sees this.  I better shut up now , hope you read my$2 worth and managed to stay awake, remember the OCCD thingy again... regards George |
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| Author: | cuzgeorge [ Thu May 03, 2012 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Symphonie variant |
Hi Traders, A quick catch up on whats been happening with demos. Firstly, i have mentioned i will be working on AA method 13 and a few different setting scenarios for Symphonie. Well, my results are somewhat mixed. Cant say i'm losing though, but probably a good break even for training. Considering settings are all over the place i think this is okay for now. One positive thing is i've found that the different TF's don't work for the EA. if this is just the EA, then so be it, but i honestly have broken every riule to try and get it to work, but no luck. i therefore will be stopping all testing on 60:5 and any other TF like that. i will be changing setups to a more standard symphonie approach and more towards the realjumper way of trading Sypmphonie. For those who don't know who realjumper is, he is one of the more successfull traders at symphonie, and often helps/blasts noobs out., I like the way he trades and seems to having a good handle on how to trade with the thingies. the bliksem trades with lower TF's and therfore must see a lot more action than what i'm getting here. The results shown are for MIG criminal, and were NOT interfered with. ALL trading was opened and closed by the EA itself. indis were set to standard, very little changing of settings here, except for R-8 s-8 and u-4 for extreme. This i got from maryjanes post as mentioned earlier. she is super sharp and would be very helpfull in settings but i myself cannot get better results by messing with the new version 3 settings. i also tried the old EA and old Indi's with Matt Kennels improved indi, but still, similar results, mixed. settings used generally follow this pattern; small targets of 25-30 pips and SL 15-25ish, BE set at 5 upto 10, trading hours from 3am to 22pm (GMT+2), AA method used at 13 and experimented with maryjanes settings as per metaquotes post. Maryjane had a lot to do with the new indi's over at the FF thread, but no one willing to help or recommend any settings, so also attached, the set file for GBPJPY. feel free to say something or recommend and will try out. settings to note; no trades were taken by any hanover setting i had used including rsi on 30:15 on eurGBP , the pair used does seem to make a difference, thats why i'm going to stick to eurusd for my next test set up. Nanbob using 30:15 had 4 trades, 2 wins and 2 losses, interestingly, the 240:60 settings with Nanningbob as trend and trigger on USDCHF had 9 trades with only 2 losses in the 3 days it traded. set file attached also. This is too slow for me, as i watched many good opportunities get missed and would like to find a setting thats much more active. I'm still convinced the trick is in the settings and still believe that the 4 indis will 'steer' the EA correctly once we get a decent set file. please stick the rules and send me a pm or post if you'd like to suggest something and in closing, i'm going to set up tighter, lower TF charts but sticking to EURUSD as Eval has always said. Finally, in closing for real this time, my coding skills are truly lacking and have not been able to get to a compilable version that can be tested. I have suffered many of Steve's warnings that you can only really learn when you have made the mistakes. I have had to start again and again from scratch, but slowly getting there. No modded EA's as yet from anyone else also, so until i get up to scratch, please be patient with me. regards cuz |
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| Author: | alex_forex [ Sat May 12, 2012 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Symphonie variant |
George, First of all, thanks for your great work and efforts on this system. Waiting for your next release and good luck with the coding  ... ready to test it  Have a nice week-end, Kind regards Alex |
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| Author: | cuzgeorge [ Sun May 13, 2012 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Symphonie variant |
Hi Alex, thanks for the post and its an absolute pleasure to be here with you all. Here's whats been going on for this time. I'm not having any luck yet with the mods on the indi's or the EA. i have also been running some test's on Wapens Version, and although you wont see all the results on the attachment, Wapen's seems to be a step ahead. I've also used Matts sentiment and looked at that indi code to possibly better, or manipulate, the others to point in the same direction. Here's the thinking, 1- Eval often spoke of staying in a trade and not getting spooked out by whipsaws. There is merit in this as i manually often got scared and bombed myself out only to see the trend continue and leave me behind. Thats the first and most important point. 2- The idea was to have a buy and a sell ea that would favour the said direction. SO it would be possible to have a buy and a sell at the same time. This is where the settings would play a roll as to which one would get dropped out to avoid ranging markets. Still trying to figure this one out and one way was to introduce ADX as per lHDT's thinking, but dont want to intro anymore thingies. Symphonie has enough already. Should be able to get a set file that works in all this. 3- the 60-5 thingy, or any TF for that matter is a load of crap to me and this EA. I've tested this to hell and gone, with no success. Maybe manually and with a bit of trader 'style' it works, but i cant get the EA to follow, or stay in a position, even with the 'doctored' settings. I have tried to pm Eval for any help or suggestion here but no reply. I was however able to get some info on the metaquotes site from MaryJane, who had a lot to do with the v3,0 indis. She's very smart and just by reading through a few posts of hers, was able to play with the extreme settings a bit. no success though. 4- you'll see that i'm testing some cycle EA's also. this is to bleed some info for coding but also to see how, and why, some take positions and others dont. The comforting thing about Symphonie is that you have four indis to look at for direction. The other EA's tested typically have only one , okay, (maybe 2), being an extreme cycle indicator of which there are many available, but this is just one indi, and symphonie has 4. If all four are pointing in the right direction, it must be very assuring to take that poisition. Steve thinks i'm a crack head with the cycles and does'nt believe they'll work in the long run. Okay, so it does'nt , you still have to discount the other 3 then. Thats why i keep thinking there's legs here. SMA indi also did'nt work and also very very slow in taking trades. 5- attached is a pic of the results i mentioned, i'm also including an indi i pcked up that helps monitor the TF stuff , feel free to check it out and comment. The Indi is similar to lHDT's brilliant signaller, but does'nt give position signalls, just paints a red or green in the TF space using. It uses MACD, STR and EMA method for direction and adds to my comparing of the indis. I even tried using them as signals to take a position when all 3 the same, but results are similar to symphonie manual trading for me. i noticed In my trading of symphonie that LhDT's signaller often got the positions more right than wrong. I cant however decompile his signaller and therefore i can summise he does'nt want anyone messing with it. The EA and his signaller set at the same settings did not concur so i'm trying to see what settings he had as internals or anything that might shed light to his signals, other than what is available as externs. 6- Where i'm left now is starting to add HANOVER and 10.2 to the EA properly, and maybe one of the millions of options that Steve's shell allows. All this while learning about 10.2 and reading posts. Also setting up new computers and installations of Empty4 and criminals, so this will be taking some more time. 7- also thinking to go with out any SL or TP and let several charts be watched over by MPTM. this might be better for the EA is we can get into a position and let let the Benjamins tell us when to get out, kinda like a basket scenario in FR. This might not work all depending on what reading we get from the indis and how the EA reacts. also 10.2 is still on the watch list and how this can be implemented but still learning here, thoughts please! I have many set files and EA's modded and messed up a thousand times by not saving to the correct file and lost many long long evenings by making silly mistakes, but slowly getting there. please be patient with me, i'm committed and learning slowly. let me know if you want anything to check out or if you want to suggest anything and i'll be more than happy to oblige, or discuss with you. Definately bitten off more than i can chew here at Steves home, but getting there slowly. ALso Gary Fritzs' Indi looks very interesting as far as a visual confirmation on the Higher TF's. i cant recall if theres anything else i'm forgetting, right now, will post along the way if there is. hehe, another long Saturday night post, hehe, hope i made sense to you.  regards cuzgeorge |
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| Author: | alex_forex [ Sun May 13, 2012 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Symphonie variant |
Thanks for your answer, it is a real pleasure to read you Good luck with Symphonie, we've got some homework with NB10.2 too Regards Alex |
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| Author: | cuzgeorge [ Thu May 31, 2012 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Symphonie variant |
Hi Steve and all, Its been a while and thought to give everyone a quick catch-up as to where Symphonie is headed for me. attached are some results over a period of two weeks. I've been jiggling with settings and code, but to summarise quickly, symphonie brings me back to square one. No matter what i try, i cant seem to get to profit, or lose for that matter. As you can see, my total is still the same at about 99k from my initial 100k, and testing has been going on for about 2 months now. My tests included Wapens version which ended up with similar results with mine, and with much less fuss and code. My attempts varied from changing the settings on the indicators, and all the way to changing the code slightly, to allow for an optimized 'buy' ea and also a 'sell' ea. This was totally fruitless on my side and in hindsight, i think contradicted the work that Matt put into fixing the Sentiment indicator. I was trying to trick the EA into taking a position and then trying to sit with the position and see what happens, kind-of like trying to get in before the curve, NOT a good idea, and not what Eval wants for symphonie anyway. I remember Eval often mentioning that one should stay in position and not get scared off quickly, so i tried to keep in line with the trendline (this was often the last to change colour), and also played with it's settings, but the more i played, the more i realised the human factor is too difficult to translate into the EA. also, 60-5, and anyTF to anyTF did'nt work for me at all. NADA, niente , tipota, NEIN,, NEIN!!!! dammit i tried everything i could think of, but i could'nt get it to work. Looking at a still image over the week ends of the charts and it baffled me why this EA wouldnt just follow the indis???? it looks soooo easy.!! The allure with Symphonie 's indicators giving us a great picture of where the direction is headed made a lot of sense to me, but i cant get it to profit consistantly. Even with Steves goodies, i've battled with this EA. Its far more complicated than say FR, as this EA involves a great deal of settings that the user must understand to input, like fiddling with all the goodies that Steve has included in the EA , like AA, Slowkey, Hanover, NB, ETC ETC. Any new person to Steve's forum should really get to grips with his user guides, especially MPTM. that would be a great start, and this leads me to where i'm headed with Symphonie. I've finally tested and configured a complete setup of Hanover signal strength, and one or two other variants, across all my pc's. 19 Empty4 platfroms on 4 pc's and i have no idea how many charts between them. I'm waiting for Gary to complete his currency strength indi, and i'll probably shift some charts with Gary's new indi. Still practising, so don't hold your breath on this one. I'm no genius at this and will need some time to incorporate if we go this route. interestingly, Hanover shares the principle of comparing TF's with each other to find a trend. I have also configured a version of MPTM, with a small hedge position for each trade that gets out of hand. Ive noticed that once this hedged position closes, and the market continue to move in the wrong direction of the first position, the hedge opens again. thats nice!, so not necessary to allow for huge hedge positions, just enough to keep us from going into huge DD. This also avoids, dare i say, Martingale. sorry Gary. , but good to avoid it if we can, right!?If there is a long trend movement like we had for the last two weeks or so, and the original position was going the wrong way, it MUST be cut off. I've learn't to take the hit and fight again another day, as trying to close all trades as winners seems to be an impossible task in the long run. I think Symphonie should remain indicator based and not move to the Martingale, or arbitrage, or ...etc etc form. i have started running these charts discussed above as of tonight and will report back soon. If there is no luck, i'm going to find another approach after discussing with others first. i am however very excited to see Hanover working correctly and transferring info across all the platforms on each pc with WatchAndCopy. Will report soon and good luck everyone, hope you're having a blast here. regards cuzgeorge ps: i have included a set file of the MPTM, and one set file of a symphonie EA i'm testing. Thoughts are very welcome! Indi settings vary across the charts, this is just an example of one and notice TP and SL are larger than the MPTM's setting. (hedge will kick in before SL is hit, allowing for a decision to be made at that point to manually intervene or let it play out and see what happens). |
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