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Recovery system with a different twist
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Author:  Pellican [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recovery system with a different twist
Interesting system, Shake.

So your system is a variation of the one described on the Blackjack site? There his base seems to remain higher after each win. Or am I missing something? As usual!

Wally
Author:  ROBST3R [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recovery system with a different twist
Iamshakey wrote:Hi Shake,

Thnx for your long awnser :lol:

I got 2 losers and after that ik played same base lot and got a winner, after that i played another baselot and got to be, so i went on with another baselot and got another 4 winners all +20pips. So it was a good day! just take a trade what looks good to take and see how it run out!

Today i started baselot and i won 6X baselot +20 pips! So i didn`t get any losses.
I still need a few to see how i will react emotionaly, but it is easier for me to step in a trade to know that i will come back to be eventually!

I trade 2% of my account each trade! 0.02 lots :lol:

Sorry for my bad english.

I really like this aproach

Blessings
Rob
Glad it helps, Rob. Stay tuned, I have an additional thought about keeping it stress free with this system I will post later when I have time. :lol:[/quote]


Hey Shakey,

when do you have enough time ;)

Magft made an ea for me with my system and he putted in a shakey`smethod for the moneymanagement:) But it still not working like suppose to, but we`re working on it.

How are you doing?
Author:  Iamshakey [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recovery system with a different twist
ROBST3R wrote:
Iamshakey wrote:Hi Shake,

Thnx for your long awnser :lol:

I got 2 losers and after that ik played same base lot and got a winner, after that i played another baselot and got to be, so i went on with another baselot and got another 4 winners all +20pips. So it was a good day! just take a trade what looks good to take and see how it run out!

Today i started baselot and i won 6X baselot +20 pips! So i didn`t get any losses.
I still need a few to see how i will react emotionaly, but it is easier for me to step in a trade to know that i will come back to be eventually!

I trade 2% of my account each trade! 0.02 lots :lol:

Sorry for my bad english.

I really like this aproach

Blessings
Rob
Glad it helps, Rob. Stay tuned, I have an additional thought about keeping it stress free with this system I will post later when I have time. :lol:

Hey Shakey,

when do you have enough time ;)

Magft made an ea for me with my system and he putted in a shakey`smethod for the moneymanagement:) But it still not working like suppose to, but we`re working on it.

How are you doing?[/quote]

Sorry for delay in Response, Rob. I have been off line all week. I am terribly interested. I would think that a good EA, along with this recovery should work. Actually, I brought up this recovery method because I wanted to catch the eye of a programmer, and see if this could become an option on a good EA. Hope it works, and please let me know if you have any questions, or I can be of any help at all.

Shake
Author:  Iamshakey [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recovery system with a different twist
Pellican wrote:Interesting system, Shake.

So your system is a variation of the one described on the Blackjack site? There his base seems to remain higher after each win. Or am I missing something? As usual!

Wally
I started doing it this way bacause, even though I can be a pretty good trader at times, I lapse into bad habits rather easily, get sloppy and desparate, start taking stupid risks.
I always felt I was trying to make up for stupid losses, and always trying to play catch up with the account balance.
I realised, that when I play blackjack using this system, I could play for hours without giving a second thought the size of my pile of chips, and without varying my playing style when I was down. i always know that I will usually make my way back to breakeven. That is why I started using this method for trading. . . for ME, anyway, it eliminates most of the mental barriers that play with my head.

IT MAY NOT BE FOR EVERYONE.

Well, it is the same as the system on the blackjack site.
1. Start the cycle with the FIRST LOSS. NEVER ESCALTATE AFTER A LOSS.
2. During the cycle, and ONLY DURING THE CYCLE, ALWAYS RETURN to base lot AFTER EACH LOSS.
(this keeps the drawdown lower after successive losses)
3. ONLY ESCALATE by ONE base lot after a win.
4. The cycle ends when ANY OVERALL PROFIT is earned on THAT PAIR. Sometimes, that profit may be pathetically low, sometimes pretty good. BUT, you have earned back your loss, plus a little cream.
5. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD TRADING SYSTEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. YOU STILL HAVE TO STICK WITH YOUR SYSTEM, AND KNOW HOW TO TRADE IT.
6. LOOK AT YOUR ACCOUNT IN TERMS OF PAIRS, RATHER THAN OVERALL BALANCE. IF EACH PAIR IS AN EVENTUAL WINNER, THE ACCCOUNT BALANCE WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF. I try to ignore the account balance when I am trading. RELIEVES MUCH STRESS.

The major difference between this system, and the blackjack one is that with trading, the eventual profits are VARIABLE. In Blackjack, you know exactly what you are risking, and exactly how much you will get with a winning hand.
YOU STILL NEED TO CUT THE LOSERS AS SHORT AS POSSIBLE, AND MAKE GOOD WINS.
Using this system with trading , the profits and losses may vary greatly. IT WORKS ITS WAY BACK TO PROFIT EVENTUALLY.
Don't worry about this. Just follow the pattern, and CALL THE CYCLE OVER WHEN THAT PARTICULAR PAIR COMES BACK INTO OVERALL PROFIT.
Author:  xfr8dog [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recovery system with a different twist
Hi Shakey,

This system looks very interesting, but I'm a little confused as well, when I read the Black Jack explanation it looks slightly different than your system......

Here's a quote from the site;
"The goal for any series of bets is to win just one unit, then start a new series. Each series starts with a one-unit bet. After any win, the next bet is one unit more than the previous bet. After any loss, the next bet is identical to the previous bet. That is, if you lose a two-unit bet, your next bet is a two-unit bet until you have a win, at which point you raise your bet one unit to a three-unit bet."

In your system it says nothing about adding one unit if the first trade is a win, and you go back to one unit after a loss, and that is not what that article says, as far as my foggy mind can tell.

I might not be reading the article or your post right, though. It's happened before and it will happen again.....
Cheers, Anders
Author:  Bunker [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recovery system with a different twist
Hello xfr8dog,

I came up with the same conclusion as yours when I was reading the web version. Take a look at gaheitman spreadsheet (Jan 14) on the ChangeTheColor EA forum. Both versions are compared.

Shakey's method reverts back to the beginning lot size after a loss whereas the web version is using identical lot size to the previous bet. I’m not quite sure which one is advantageous, but there are a couple of smart people working on this, over in the Change The Color EA Forum.

Bunker
Author:  Iamshakey [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recovery system with a different twist
Bunker wrote:Hello xfr8dog,

I came up with the same conclusion as yours when I was reading the web version. Take a look at gaheitman spreadsheet (Jan 14) on the ChangeTheColor EA forum. Both versions are compared.

Shakey's method reverts back to the beginning lot size after a loss whereas the web version is using identical lot size to the previous bet. I’m not quite sure which one is advantageous, but there are a couple of smart people working on this, over in the Change The Color EA Forum.

Bunker
Sorry for delayed reply. Your are right. The method I am referring to reverts to THE BASE LOT SIZE every time you are coming off a Loss. ADD ONE BASE LOT TO THE Sequence with the WIN. WITH ONE EXCEPTION! --- when you get within striking distance of your goal, ONLY PLAY ENOUGH TO GET PAST THE GOAL WITH PROFIT. That way you don't give it all back, should you lose this bet.

Lets say you are up to (base lot X5). Lets say you ONLY NEED (base lot X2) to reach the goal. TRADE THAT, so that if you lose, IT DOESN'T TAKE YOU ALL THE WAY BACK DOWN WHERE YOU WERE.

One of the keys to this, and why it works for me, is keeping track of each pair, and where they are in the cycle. I try to ignore the account balance, as I accumulate wins, because, IF EACH PAIR IS A WINNER SOONER OR LATER, THE ACCOUNT BALANCE WILL GROW.

Start with base lot sizes that are comfortable for you. You should start with a base lot that is so big, that it will damage your account if it goes 4 or 5 levels. Do some simple math, and increase the base lot you use gradually.
FOR INSTANCE: I know that the trade system I am usuing now, that I will have a win loss of around 70% with about a 5% drawdown at any one time. This is after making 100s of trades, and knowing pretty much what the worst case is going to be.

I don't have a specific formula to give you. On one of my accounts, I am currently trading with a base lot of 0.12 per lot. I know that after I have increased my account balance by about 10% I can increase this to 0.13. I don't feel like I am always playing "catch up" with the losses, or tottering on the edge of catastrophe. This also has the effect of sort of compounding your account balance.
Your account balance will grow gradually, but very steadily.

I emphasize, this can't turn a Losing strategy into a winner. If you have a losing strategy and bad trading habits, MAC-DADDY :twisted: WILL EVENTUALLY GET YOU ANYWAY.

shake
Author:  Iamshakey [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recovery system with a different twist
Bunker wrote:Hello xfr8dog,

I came up with the same conclusion as yours when I was reading the web version. Take a look at gaheitman spreadsheet (Jan 14) on the ChangeTheColor EA forum. Both versions are compared.

Shakey's method reverts back to the beginning lot size after a loss whereas the web version is using identical lot size to the previous bet. I’m not quite sure which one is advantageous, but there are a couple of smart people working on this, over in the Change The Color EA Forum.

Bunker
By the way, the recovery system (a little different) that is programmed on the change the color, is working pretty well. A little more drawdown than mine, but pretty solid, seems to me.

Shake
Author:  SteveHopwood [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recovery system with a different twist
I am astonished by the creativity unleashed at this site. Everywhere I look, someone is developing something fantastic. Had I thought this would happen, I would have pissed of TIT a long time ago. :lol:

Shake, this one sent me scurrying for a bath-lol. :lol:

What we need is a module that can slot into the code shell, then be retro-fitted into existing ea's where appropriate, hived out into a couple of buy/sell scripts for the manual traders, then exported to a simple monitoring ea so the manuals can keep track of the position.

Here is my understanding of all this
  • - each trading cycle aims to make 1 unit of profit.
    - a unit is defined as the take profit multiplied by the base lot size.
    - if we achieve that profit from the first trade, then it is smug, self-satisfied smirk time
    - if not we take the next trade at base lot size
    - when a trade wins, take the next trade at the winner lot size + base lot
    - keep a tally of the entire 'basket' and when the upl reaches 1 unit of profit, we can start the cycle again
Forget the technicals of the coding guys - I can see to that. Here is the logic I arrived at in the bath:
  • 1) the EA regards all trades as part of a basket of trades, whether open or closed.
    2) when it sends the first trade in the cycle, the ea needs to leave behind some sort of indication that this is the first. Override the user's trade comment choice and place a '1' in the comment field.
    3) then, whenever the ea spots a trading opportunity, it cycles back through the trades in the History tab until it either reaches a trade with '1' in the comment field. As it goes, it adds up the combined upl of order profit, swap and commission.
    4) if the upl >= I unit of profit, or there are no relevant trades in the History tab, the bot can yell, "Party time" and return to no 2)
    5) if the upl < 1 unit of profit, it can examine the most recent trade in the History tab and:
    • - use base lot size if the trade was a loser.
      - use order lot size + base lot if it was a winner.
Sound ok?

:D
Author:  gaheitman [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recovery system with a different twist
SteveHopwood wrote:I am astonished by the creativity unleashed at this site. Everywhere I look, someone is developing something fantastic. Had I thought this would happen, I would have pissed of TIT a long time ago. :lol:

Shake, this one sent me scurrying for a bath-lol. :lol:

What we need is a module that can slot into the code shell, then be retro-fitted into existing ea's where appropriate, hived out into a couple of buy/sell scripts for the manual traders, then exported to a simple monitoring ea so the manuals can keep track of the position.

Here is my understanding of all this
  • - each trading cycle aims to make 1 unit of profit.
    - a unit is defined as the take profit multiplied by the base lot size.
    - if we achieve that profit from the first trade, then it is smug, self-satisfied smirk time
    - if not we take the next trade at base lot size
    - when a trade wins, take the next trade at the winner lot size + base lot
    - keep a tally of the entire 'basket' and when the upl reaches 1 unit of profit, we can start the cycle again
Forget the technicals of the coding guys - I can see to that. Here is the logic I arrived at in the bath:
  • 1) the EA regards all trades as part of a basket of trades, whether open or closed.
    2) when it sends the first trade in the cycle, the ea needs to leave behind some sort of indication that this is the first. Override the user's trade comment choice and place a '1' in the comment field.
    3) then, whenever the ea spots a trading opportunity, it cycles back through the trades in the History tab until it either reaches a trade with '1' in the comment field. As it goes, it adds up the combined upl of order profit, swap and commission.
    4) if the upl >= I unit of profit, or there are no relevant trades in the History tab, the bot can yell, "Party time" and return to no 2)
    5) if the upl < 1 unit of profit, it can examine the most recent trade in the History tab and:
    • - use base lot size if the trade was a loser.
      - use order lot size + base lot if it was a winner.
Sound ok?

:D
The algorithm you describe is almost exactly how it is implemented in ChangeTheColor. And it is written in such a way that it could be changed to support other compounding systems.

George
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