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Author:  Zool [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.2 forum
As I mentioned Cowboy IBFX gives some custom indicators if you download and install the platform from their site. There are a daily and weekly pivot between them, their names are "Cowboy IBFX - DailyPivots" and "Cowboy IBFX - WeeklyPivots". I don't know much about coding, but those indicators give correct pivot numbers. You can look into the code since they give the .mq4 file too.
Should I post here these 2 indicators?
Author:  NeoTrader [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.2 forum
hi all,

found this code snippet that could resolve the problem for the daily pivot

It works with an external Parameter "Use_Sunday_Data". if is set to true sunday data is included in the pivot calculation otherwise not.

Code: Select all

double Day_Price[][6];

ArrayCopyRates(Day_Price,(Symbol()), 1440);

   YesterdayHigh  = Day_Price[1][3];
   YesterdayLow   = Day_Price[1][2];
   YesterdayClose = Day_Price[1][4];
   
   Pivot = ((YesterdayHigh + YesterdayLow + YesterdayClose)/3);

   R1 = (2*Pivot)-YesterdayLow;
   S1 = (2*Pivot)-YesterdayHigh;

   R2 = Pivot+(R1-S1);
   S2 = Pivot-(R1-S1);
   
   R3 = (YesterdayHigh + (2*(Pivot-YesterdayLow)));
   S3 = (YesterdayLow - (2*(YesterdayHigh-Pivot)));  
  
  
if (Use_Sunday_Data == false)
 {   
   while (DayOfWeek() == 1)
      {      
       YesterdayHigh  = Day_Price[2][3];
       YesterdayLow   = Day_Price[2][2];
       YesterdayClose = Day_Price[2][4];
   
       Pivot = ((YesterdayHigh + YesterdayLow + YesterdayClose)/3);

       R1 = (2*Pivot)-YesterdayLow;
       S1 = (2*Pivot)-YesterdayHigh;

       R2 = Pivot+(R1-S1);
       S2 = Pivot-(R1-S1);
   
       R3 = (YesterdayHigh + (2*(Pivot-YesterdayLow)));
       S3 = (YesterdayLow - (2*(YesterdayHigh-Pivot)));
       break;
      }
 }
I don't think we have many possibilities, since every crim is different. At least when the user can select if he wants/needs to use sunday data or not it could help to solve the situation at some point.

happy trading ,

NeoTrader
Author:  nanningbob [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.2 forum
garyfritz wrote:
spotdespot wrote:Hi Bob - garyfritz actually came up with a solution to the weekly open histogram issue - which works with any timeframe criminal (GMT or otherwise) -
Unfortunately I don't see any similar fix for the weekly/monthly pivot indicators. They don't have the "look for Sunday candle to mark start of week" error that the WOH indicators had. They just get the previous week/month candle using iShift, then pull out the H/L/C with iHigh, iLow, iClose. I don't see any fix there.

I'm hardly here at all this month and haven't had any time to look at this, but I'm not sure I understand what's causing the pivot differences. I suspect it's caused by crims that close at times other than 5pm NY time? That would cause different daily / weekly / monthly candles, especially the Close value, which would produce different pivot calculations. (Are there really crims that close at other times?? The global markets should be closing at 5pm NY Friday, so I don't know why individual crims would close at a different time.

If that's it, it's fixable to produce the same pivot on any crim. You just have to look at H1 candles (to calculate the daily H/L/C) and make sure you use the same candles for any crim with any close time.

If someone could explain the exact crim behavior that causes the problem, maybe (in my Copious Free Time (TM)) I could look at building a crim-agnostic pivot indicator.

Or maybe it doesn't really matter. As someone (Spot?) said, there are a zillion different pivot formulas. They can't all be right, or at least any more right than almost any other. Maybe how you trade around the pivot is more important than where the pivot is.
If someone came up with a universal time so everyone's charts would be the same I would be open to the idea. I think it would help with the trading discussions if we are all on the same page. The question I would add then is the weekend gaps. Do we wish to adjust to them or not? I spent almost 3 weeks with this issue on the weekly open trying to come up with something and just couldnt come to a conclusion other than to stick with what I started with. The bottom line for me is I have just a limited time to work on stuff like this and havent solved the problem to a universal solution. The solution has to be comprehensive and include all the indicators to the system. Anyway gonna go out for breakfast with some friends and watch the basketball game. : )
Author:  SteveHopwood [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.2 forum
nanningbob wrote:f someone came up with a universal time so everyone's charts would be the same I would be open to the idea. I think it would help with the trading discussions if we are all on the same page. The question I would add then is the weekend gaps. Do we wish to adjust to them or not? I spent almost 3 weeks with this issue on the weekly open trying to come up with something and just couldnt come to a conclusion other than to stick with what I started with. The bottom line for me is I have just a limited time to work on stuff like this and havent solved the problem to a universal solution. The solution has to be comprehensive and include all the indicators to the system. Anyway gonna go out for breakfast with some friends and watch the basketball game. : )
Bob, your patience never ceases to amaze me. In your position, I would throw a Wobbler a Week. Possibly even A Daily Wobbler.

To everyone else, here is another solution, guys. We know that Bob is being quite successful at the mo, doing what he does. Hell, I am being quite successful at the mo, doing my understanding of what Bob does - and we all know where 'my understanding' usually leads. :lol:

What about the rest of you trying the same thingy?

Instead of looking to adapt x thingy to y criminal, and x time to y some-other-time, try this:
  • - download a demo from Cowboy IBFX USA, the b-roker (that had to be dragged kicking and screaming from me to avoid being sued - you all know what I really wanted to write) that Bob finds himself forced to use because his so-called government is in the pocket of these dimwitted schysters.
    - use said um b-r-o (nope, no good, can't continue; sorry, only so much pain I can stand) to guide your trades
Instead of trying to adapt Bob to your timescale, how about adapting your timescale to Bob's?

Seems screamingly obvious to me but hey, what do I know? Apart from you all being here.........

Food for thought? Give it some.

:D
Author:  garyfritz [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.2 forum
OK, I installed Cowboy IBFX. It runs at GMT+0, but that's not a big problem. But I think it's not possible to match results between Cowboy IBFX and PFG BEST (Empty4 crim) or Tradestation, because Cowboy IBFX starts and ends at different times than the others. Not different timezones, but different candles.

Here are PFG and TS, looking at the AUDCAD Friday-to-Sunday gap. Both show very similar though not identical data. Then compare that to Cowboy IBFX at the bottom.

They do not have the same data because Cowboy IBFX closes an hour earlier, and opens an hour later than TS and PFG. TS and PFG (and all other crims I've looked at, which is admittedly not many) close at 5pm NY time Friday, and open at 5pm NY time Sunday. Cowboy IBFX closes at 4pm NY time Friday and opens at 6pm NY time Sunday.

Given that, I question whether Cowboy IBFX is a good model to go by. It may be working for Bob, but...

If we think Bob's weekly pivots are critical, then we should modify the pivot indicator to ignore the last hour of Friday's price action. But that seems like a bad idea.
Author:  nanningbob [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.2 forum
garyfritz wrote:OK, I installed Cowboy IBFX. It runs at GMT+0, but that's not a big problem. But I think it's not possible to match results between Cowboy IBFX and PFG BEST (Empty4 crim) or Tradestation, because Cowboy IBFX starts and ends at different times than the others. Not different timezones, but different candles.

Here are PFG and TS, looking at the AUDCAD Friday-to-Sunday gap. Both show very similar though not identical data. Then compare that to Cowboy IBFX at the bottom.

They do not have the same data because Cowboy IBFX closes an hour earlier, and opens an hour later than TS and PFG. TS and PFG (and all other crims I've looked at, which is admittedly not many) close at 5pm NY time Friday, and open at 5pm NY time Sunday. Cowboy IBFX closes at 4pm NY time Friday and opens at 6pm NY time Sunday.

Given that, I question whether Cowboy IBFX is a good model to go by. It may be working for Bob, but...

If we think Bob's weekly pivots are critical, then we should modify the pivot indicator to ignore the last hour of Friday's price action. But that seems like a bad idea.
The thing is my pivots dont set until JPY open 8PM EST, so I have to wait anyway. The close on Friday doesnt really matter. So if you set the pivots to jpy open 0 GMT then everyone should be the same unless the candles dont open and close at the same time. This is why I gave up on the histogram project. We could not find a time to start where everyone started at the same time. Too many broker differences. That is why I had a different pivot point than everyone else on Monday, my pivots reset at the jpy open. So it included the info from the gaps. If there is any major movement from USA close session during the week and the jpy open then my day by day pivots will be different also.
Author:  NeoTrader [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.2 forum
hi all,

I think we are going in circles here.

My thoughts on this topic are as following.

What is the least common denominator we have?
We have two options here either we stick with the day time (12am/12pm) or we stick with the market open/close times.
If we go with the Day time we should determine which timezone we use as a base or give a option to select the timezone.
If we go with market open/close time we should determine which market(s) we use as base or give an option to select it.

Thoughts about Day time:
- Since the name of this indicator is Daily Pivot we should use our definition of a day (12am/12pm) .
- The major movements and markets in forex are London and New York it would be only logical to use GMT as Base time (London is the first large market to open).
- We have a nice library here http://www.stevehopwoodforex.com/phpBB3 ... f=15&t=225 which can help us with GMT calculations.
- Monday Daily Pivots could be calculated from midnight GMT on Friday to midnight GMT on Sunday
other Daily pivots also from Midnight to Midnight.

Thoughts about Market time:
- Daily Pivot calculations could base from previous day Market open to today market open for the daily.
- an option to select the market open time would allow the user to adjust the pivot line to his or the markets liking.
- Since the major volatility in the forex market starts with London open why not use this as base for the daily pivots. If you look at this weeks opening gaps nothing really happened till London opened.
- Monday Daily Pivots could be calculated from Market open on Friday to Market open on Monday.

As for the weekly and monthly i don't see that much of a problem since th differences there are marginal if you look at them in relation to the time frame (D1, H4) we normally trade.

OK, this are my confuse thoughts on this topic...maybe someone pick anything out of this.. ;)

Happy trading,

NeoTrader
Author:  Zool [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.2 forum
SteveHopwood wrote: Instead of trying to adapt Bob to your timescale, how about adapting your timescale to Bob's?
With the pivot points not the timescale the problem, but the method how it is calculated. Sunday candles are not part of previous trading week.
Author:  garyfritz [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.2 forum
nanningbob wrote:The thing is my pivots dont set until JPY open 8PM EST, so I have to wait anyway. The close on Friday doesnt really matter.
I don't understand what you mean by "your pivots don't set" ? How does the JPY open time affect it?

The pivots in e.g. 10.2 MonthlyPivots.mq4 are calculated using the iHigh,iLow,iClose of the previous pivot_timeframe_const bar. Using Cowboy IBFX, and assuming you're calculating weekly pivots, that means you're getting the High and Low of last week, plus the Close of last week -- which, since Cowboy IBFX closes at 4pm NY on Friday, means you are using the 4pm NY close value in your (H+L+C)/3 pivot calculation. (Which, I think, is where your weekly-pivot differences come from. With most other crims you'd use the 5pm NY close.)

iHigh/iLow/iClose use the daily/weekly candle values of the crim, Cowboy IBFX in this case. Daily candles open/close at midnight crim time (midnight GMT for Cowboy IBFX, except the Friday close & Sunday open). Weekly candles for Cowboy IBFX open at 6pm NY Sunday and close at 4pm NY Friday. The JPY open time doesn't factor into the calculation.

At least that's how I read it. Other coders, is that how you see it?
So if you set the pivots to jpy open 0 GMT then everyone should be the same unless the candles dont open and close at the same time.
They don't. Cowboy IBFX opens later and closes earlier.
Author:  Zool [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.2 forum
garyfritz wrote:Weekly candles for Cowboy IBFX open at 6pm NY Sunday and close at 4pm NY Friday.
At Cowboy IBFX the weekly candles close at Sunday 24:00 GMT, new one opens at Monday 0:00 GMT, which makes it more weird in my eyes. Look at the weekly candle, the close value is 1.26435. Looking at the 1H chart, the close value of the last Friday candle was 1.24987. Then the close of 1H candle at 2012.06.10 23:00 time was 1.26435 wich is the close you can see on the weekly candle. Then the opening of the 2012.06.11 00:00 1H candle is 1.26436 wich is the open price of the weekly candle.
So at Cowboy IBFX the weekly candle is from Monday 0:00 till Sunday 24:00 in GMT time zone, which I can't understandwhy, and how these opening and closing times connected to the Forex market open hours...
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