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10.4 A Complete System
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Author:  nanningbob [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.4 A Complete System
grimweasel wrote:
Jemook wrote:
grimweasel wrote:Alpesh then said he uses ATRx2 for his stop losses
Graet stuff - is this 2x daily ATR or is he saying 2x ATR of whichever TF you are trading off?

Hi Jem - thanks - only too willing to help. He was saying 2xATR of your time frame. He never trades stocks below daily but will trade Forex down to H1 lowest!
My gratitude to you also. Keep up the focus on the daily chart, These traders need to learn top down analysis and you help bring that.
Author:  SteveHopwood [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.4 A Complete System
nanningbob wrote:I dont know what you guys are doing wrong. I very seldom have a BE. I take profit. You spend time in front of a computer watching watching watching watching. What are you waiting for. I traded JPY AUD and USD and the last two days this is what I have done.

31 wins 15 losers 503 total pips in my pocket.
Thing is Bob, that not everyone here understands this stuff as you do.

They try to trade a literal version of what is in your pdf. It takes some courage for a newb to attempt to go beyond what is in the pdf. They are not in touch with the vast experience that lies in between your ears.

There are many posts here that proclaim that such-and-such is within, or not within, 'Bob's rules'. One of the first thingy a newb learns in forex trading, sadly, is 'stick to the rules. If it isn't within the rules, then don't do it.' Shame really, because the 'rules' are usually set by someone who breaks them all the time.

It is hard for many to grasp that you are trying to provide a trading framework rather than a set of rules. Not your fault - humans risking actual cash prefer certainty above the need to think for themselves.

Having said that, I have made a fair few pips this week but have not spotted a fraction of the trading opps you have, so maybe I am still a bit rule-bound myself. :lol:

So, don't be surprised when others mis-understand thingies. You have vast experience that the rest of us do not.

:D
Author:  grimweasel [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.4 A Complete System
Bob - from what I learnt last night I would say that there is still too-shorter and insular expectation from the system. You are trading on the right side of the MONTHLY and WEEKLY trend and then only taking small 25 pip wins. Surely, if you are wanting to get into monthly pull backs then you need to adopt a monthly based profit expectation? Would it not be better to wait for fewer A1++ trades that have the potential to trend than setting multiple orders at each pivot level?

I'm just internalising what I learnt from David and Alpesh last night and what I have really taught and found out the hard way myself. By taking a step back from the market and focussing on the bigger picture we spend less time looking at the charts and more time 'living'?

If we see a pullback to the 240ma on H4 we are seeing a pullback to the 2MA on the monthly? So if I were trading the Monthly chart I would be setting Monthly TF stops and Limit Orders. Setting stops too tight and profit targets too soon, actually costs you more in the long run.

There are not many traders who are willing to look at a weekly TF and 'wear' a 300 pip pullback - but it happens all the time. I have been told ad-nausem that you should only exit the trade on the same TF that you entered on. So I guess the Q is - what TF is 10.4 trading? Are we trading the Monthly, or the H4?

The H4 in my view is 6 times harder to trade than the Daily. The H1 is 24 times harder to trade than the daily..and so on...the daily open, high, low, close have much more significant meaning than H4 levels because more people are looking at daily levels - large pension funds etc use daily entries on weekly charts. They are not interested in 'noise' from the lower TFs?

I guess it depends on the type of person you are. I can't stand the stress of looking at lower TF charts all day. The levels are less meaningful I guess. I love the simplicity of setting orders with the NY close each night at 2200 GMT over here in the UK. I guess we just have to fit the systems into our body clocks and time zones. I have learnt from bitter experience that the further out you come in TFs, the fewer trades you make, but the better quality they are and with a higher ROI?
Author:  nanningbob [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.4 A Complete System
SteveHopwood wrote:
nanningbob wrote:I dont know what you guys are doing wrong. I very seldom have a BE. I take profit. You spend time in front of a computer watching watching watching watching. What are you waiting for. I traded JPY AUD and USD and the last two days this is what I have done.

31 wins 15 losers 503 total pips in my pocket.
Thing is Bob, that not everyone here understands this stuff as you do.

They try to trade a literal version of what is in your pdf. It takes some courage for a newb to attempt to go beyond what is in the pdf. They are not in touch with the vast experience that lies in between your ears.

There are many posts here that proclaim that such-and-such is within, or not within, 'Bob's rules'. One of the first thingy a newb learns in forex trading, sadly, is 'stick to the rules. If it isn't within the rules, then don't do it.' Shame really, because the 'rules' are usually set by someone who breaks them all the time.

It is hard for many to grasp that you are trying to provide a trading framework rather than a set of rules. Not your fault - humans risking actual cash prefer certainty above the need to think for themselves.

Having said that, I have made a fair few pips this week but have not spotted a fraction of the trading opps you have, so maybe I am still a bit rule-bound myself. :lol:

So, don't be surprised when others mis-understand thingies. You have vast experience that the rest of us do not.

:D
But I did tell them to trade JPY, USD and AUD early this week. 10.4 and 10.4 info page said so. I did say M-W look for quick profits or trade line to line until they get a hang of it. I showed the info page showing the lines were all bunched up so price would be ranging. I tell them take your profit halfway through a session so they dont have the BE hit all the time. It is not that I am not following my own rules. Yes there are some extra trades in there but they were not mentioned; they shouldnt be losing like this. The AUD and USD have not hit the 240 line. The JPY has on some currencies that did but they were close so the loss should not have been big. The cad/jpy, nzd/jpy and gbp/jpy have both had nice bounces off of the 240 line for buys and the eur/jpy bounced down nicely before bouncing up over the line. I didnt catch all of them but I did some. I show pics of setups the last two days. I mean what more can I do Steve???
Author:  Chris [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.4 A Complete System
Okay, here is where I stand since the first of this month, so this only 20 days not even a full month and I am feeling pretty good about things. I think this is the first day in a long time that I have been flat with no open positions. So far 10.4 is looking really good and I think the 240 stop out is key, I have taken alot of heat on some of these trade just to see them come out on top to make profit or at least get back to break even.
Great system Bob!
Thanks
Author:  Chris [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.4 A Complete System
nanningbob wrote:
Nipponho wrote:GBPCAD is now at weekly R1, a short setup based on SR (not 10.4). But i had this short opened last friday which turned bad and hit SL. Now i am fearful of entering again.

Many of the trades past few days had moved just enough to activate pending orders and then turn bad. Those that were profitable with 2 levels were closed out at BE. I'm having a very bad week with 10.4. Couldn't chalk up those pips that you all have collected. SL keeps getting hit. Maybe I go and try 10.3.
I dont know what you guys are doing wrong. I very seldom have a BE. I take profit. You spend time in front of a computer watching watching watching watching. What are you waiting for. I traded JPY AUD and USD and the last two days this is what I have done.

31 wins 15 losers 503 total pips in my pocket. average profit 26 pips average loss 22 pips. That is a 5% increase in my account in 2 days. Started the week down around 2% for a 3% increase of my account for the week DD is less than 2% right now. Here are my two days of trades. You have to put pages 4 5 6 and with 1 2 3 to get them to match. Some of the numbers are skewed in the Take loss column, they say 800 something when they should be 80 something. There have been no 800 pip moves this week. \

I guess my question is this.

WHY ARE YOU WAITING FOR YOUR BE TO GET HIT?????
Another option for some of these traders maybe that once the second level it trigger, take profit on the first and set stop to half way back. Example trade 1 trades to 2 level entry for a profit of $10, take profit on trade 1 and set stop to $5 stop loss, this way they are giving the second trade a chance to run while still making $5 if the trade turns back to what would have been a BE. Or make another $5 or more if it runs.
Just a thought.
Author:  gab777 [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.4 A Complete System
But I did tell them to trade JPY, USD and AUD early this week. 10.4 and 10.4 info page said so. I did say M-W look for quick profits or trade line to line until they get a hang of it. I showed the info page showing the lines were all bunched up so price would be ranging. I tell them take your profit halfway through a session so they dont have the BE hit all the time. It is not that I am not following my own rules. Yes there are some extra trades in there but they were not mentioned; they shouldnt be losing like this. The AUD and USD have not hit the 240 line. The JPY has on some currencies that did but they were close so the loss should not have been big. The cad/jpy, nzd/jpy and gbp/jpy have both had nice bounces off of the 240 line for buys and the eur/jpy bounced down nicely before bouncing up over the line. I didnt catch all of them but I did some. I show pics of setups the last two days. I mean what more can I do Steve???
Hi Bob,

If I might interject, I don't believe Steve is asking more of you, he's just recognizing that even though you follow your own methodology successfully, most beginners will try to use your framework as a rigid system, and some of them will fail. A beginner will certainly not be able to emulate your own experience.

Frankly, your 10.4 methodology is more then enough to be profitable, and you are very generous to share it with others, as well as give so much of your time explaining and detailing all your trades. At the end of the day though, every trader needs to do his homework, try it out on his own and master himself. Remember the horse to water, you may try to help traders become successul, but you cannot do it *for* them.

All the best,
Author:  The_Snowman [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.4 A Complete System
nanningbob wrote:OK today looks like Euro day with lots of euro set ups. here is my eur/cad set up. Sell at break of WP and WMR1 and also I set one at the DP line. So 3 entrances for a rally in the DT coming up.
Big difference in brokers, anyone else notice this much difference in the Weekly Pivot?

This is AxiTrader Australia, way below, no chance to SELL the WP as Bob has set his pending.

:?: :?: :?:
Author:  Pips A-Go-Go [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.4 A Complete System
Just posted about this in Dummies thread - thought I might've got something wrong. I'm with Axi too
Author:  nanningbob [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 10.4 A Complete System
grimweasel wrote:Bob - from what I learnt last night I would say that there is still too-shorter and insular expectation from the system. You are trading on the right side of the MONTHLY and WEEKLY trend and then only taking small 25 pip wins. Surely, if you are wanting to get into monthly pull backs then you need to adopt a monthly based profit expectation? Would it not be better to wait for fewer A1++ trades that have the potential to trend than setting multiple orders at each pivot level?

I'm just internalising what I learnt from David and Alpesh last night and what I have really taught and found out the hard way myself. By taking a step back from the market and focussing on the bigger picture we spend less time looking at the charts and more time 'living'?

If we see a pullback to the 240ma on H4 we are seeing a pullback to the 2MA on the monthly? So if I were trading the Monthly chart I would be setting Monthly TF stops and Limit Orders. Setting stops too tight and profit targets too soon, actually costs you more in the long run.

There are not many traders who are willing to look at a weekly TF and 'wear' a 300 pip pullback - but it happens all the time. I have been told ad-nausem that you should only exit the trade on the same TF that you entered on. So I guess the Q is - what TF is 10.4 trading? Are we trading the Monthly, or the H4?

The H4 in my view is 6 times harder to trade than the Daily. The H1 is 24 times harder to trade than the daily..and so on...the daily open, high, low, close have much more significant meaning than H4 levels because more people are looking at daily levels - large pension funds etc use daily entries on weekly charts. They are not interested in 'noise' from the lower TFs?

I guess it depends on the type of person you are. I can't stand the stress of looking at lower TF charts all day. The levels are less meaningful I guess. I love the simplicity of setting orders with the NY close each night at 2200 GMT over here in the UK. I guess we just have to fit the systems into our body clocks and time zones. I have learnt from bitter experience that the further out you come in TFs, the fewer trades you make, but the better quality they are and with a higher ROI?
I respect your trading the daily charts but I have been trading the 4 H charts profitably for many years, more than 4 years, so it can be done. When markets are ranging very tightly, then you trade tightly, easier seen on 4H charts and better yet on a 1H chart, than they are happening than on a daily chart. A daily chart the tight range can only be seen after the fact. So I have a big advantage over you in tight markets. You have advantage in trending markets but you will see the Info page in 10.4 is set to the daily averages so we will see them also when the happen. Whenever a currency breaks out into a trend we will see it show up on the info page. We will then treat it accordingly.

My trading days is stress free. I wake up at 6 am, jpy sessions starts at 8am so I can set up my daily trades. At 10am my kids go out to recess and I can close any profit trades 2-3 hours in. School closes at 3：30 but I have a 15M break at 2 so I can set up my euro trades. I get home from school between 5-6 or halfway through the euro session and take my profits and set up my USD session trades. I go out or spend the evening with my wife and go to bed around 11 or Euro close and close my profit trades. I go to bed and wake upbetween sessions and close my profit trades and set up for my next day. 4H are perfect for those who work. So plug your daily for those it fits. I will trade the 4H and pick up those 20-50 pip profits that you wont see on a daily chart in tight markets and still catch the trends you see on the daily.
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