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Bob and Shelley Again
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Author:  fxozgirl [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob and Shelley Again
spotdespot wrote:Hi Shelley,

The more I look at the stack trades the more I think that once stacked trades are taken then the trades in that stack should be treated as a mini "basket". Breakeven should be set on the "basket" and whatever trailing mechanism used should be treated as per MPBM.

When price really takes off the stacking works fine as it is, but too often the profit made in the main trade is given back by the stack trade or even worse the main trade makes it to 50+ pips, triggers the stack trade, the main trade is stopped out at BE+2 and the stack trade goes to hit whatever its stop loss is set at. So from being a >50 pip winner it goes to a significant loss. there are plenty of examples in your "Demo 1" history.

This might not be such a big issue when things start moving a bit better but it will always be an issue imo.

Cheers,
Dave.
Hi Dave, thanks for your input and I completely agree...we need to find the best way to harness the stack trades because when they work they work really, really well, however all too often what you describe above happens and we end up taking a loss on the stacked trade.

In regards to the stacked trades...are you suggesting the original trade becomes part of the basket or just the stacked trades themselves, I think this sounds similar to the BE function Steve had in one of the Nanningbob EA's (I can't remember which one), but I'm not sure how effective that was? If anyone has some experience of that, please share?
Author:  fxozgirl [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob and Shelley Again
fxozgirl wrote:
Global Prime | GMT 0 | $5000 | Leverage 1:100

Demo 1: Original BASA demo
(started 27/7/13), updated at (almost) every version - currently v1u
Main Entry / Re-entry: Both On
MA Stacking for Main/Re-entry Trades: Off
MA Stacking for Stack Trades: On
Trade Stacking: On Max Trades Allowed: 5 StackDistancePips: 50 StackStopLossDivisor: 2
Trade Management: TP 300, SL 100, JS 50, BE+2 30
All other settings default
Edit: updated to v1u, turned MA stack on for stacking trades - 130913
Edit:
Image

I have made the following adjustments to my BASA Demo 1 from above:

BE+5 50
HalfCloseEnabled True
On analysis almost half the trades are closing at BE after gaining in most cases in excess of 50 pips, so I am testing a bigger BE value but also closing half the trade to try and lock in some profit in case of a retrace.

In addition to try and address the problem with the stacked trades ending in a loss as described by
spotdespot above, I am also trialling turning on slope for these trades.

Stack Trades - I have turned on slope to see if that helps with only taking stacked trades with strong momentum. I have HTF set to 240 and HTF BuyOnlyLevel set to 0.6 / HTF SellOnlyLevel set to -0.6
Not using LTF
Author:  fxozgirl [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob and Shelley Again
matrixebiz wrote:Ok, no worries, I'll test it out and get back to you as I think it is very important to understand how exactly these options are supposed to work and that the EA itself may not reflect this correctly but I guess that's why we test and report back :)

I don't turn zelkjo on with my trading so cannot give you an accurate answer...certainly testing will be the best way and it would be great if you would share your findings in due course :D

Cheers
Shelley
Author:  spotdespot [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob and Shelley Again
fxozgirl wrote:

In regards to the stacked trades...are you suggesting the original trade becomes part of the basket or just the stacked trades themselves........
Hi Shelley,

Yes - the original trade must be part of the basket as if not you still have the same problem - i.e. original trade closes at BE+x and stacked trade can go on to hit SL.

What it effectively means is that the SL is set at BE+x for all trades of the currency pair the moment the stacked trade is opened as the original trade is @ +50 pips at that point. Then I think it just becomes a question of the size of the stack trades* as they will affect the BE point (don't want the SL to be too tight).

I think Steve had this function in the Individual Trade Manager (ITM) for 10.4/5(?). I don't think there is anything wrong with the theory of it as that was how Bob was trading manually, hence the NB-i-breakeven indicator, however people had issues if they tried to add the the ITM to a chart BEFORE the second trade was added - which caused trades to instantly close if I remember correctly.

I like the close % at BE by the way. I think I will add that too in the meantime to my test.

Cheers,
Dave.

EDIT: * - this would mean adding the ability to have different original and stack trade sizes. Regardless of the basket concept being implemented or not I think this is a good idea in itself as the stack trades will always be higher risk. We need a balance - no need to be too greedy imo?
Author:  fxozgirl [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob and Shelley Again
spotdespot wrote:
fxozgirl wrote:

In regards to the stacked trades...are you suggesting the original trade becomes part of the basket or just the stacked trades themselves........
Hi Shelley,

Yes - the original trade must be part of the basket as if not you still have the same problem - i.e. original trade closes at BE+x and stacked trade can go on to hit SL.

What it effectively means is that the SL is set at BE+x for all trades of the currency pair the moment the stacked trade is opened as the original trade is @ +50 pips at that point. Then I think it just becomes a question of the size of the stack trades as they will affect the BE point (don't want the SL to be too tight).

I think Steve had this function in the Individual Trade Manager (ITM) for 10.4/5(?). I don't think there is anything wrong with the theory of it as that was how Bob was trading manually, hence the NB-i-breakeven indicator, however people had issues if they tried to add the the ITM to a chart BEFORE the second trade was added - which caused trades to instantly close if I remember correctly.

I like the close % at BE by the way. I think I will add that too in the meantime to my test.

Cheers,
Dave.

Yes, the ITM EA is the one I remember...maybe Steve can share his opinion on whether he thinks this may work for BASA??

For now, I am trialling the slope option just for stacked trades...hopefully that will only allow trades once a strong momentum is in place.
Author:  SteveHopwood [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob and Shelley Again
Version 1v is in post 1.

From the updated user guide:
  • StackBreakevenLineColour: once BASA is stacking trades, they are treated as a basket. BASA draws a breakeven line on the chart and closes the basket if the market reaches the line. This allows you to chose your own colour – the default is Magenta.
  • StackBreakevenProfitPips: this is a dynamic profit-lock input. BASA multiplies this input by the number of open trades in the basket and adds it to (buys) or subtracts it from (sells) the breakeven price. For example: four open trades so BASA adds 20 pips to the breakeven line price for buys, or subtracts for sells.
The actual closure function has yet to be tested but the code is straight forward enough.

:D
Author:  spotdespot [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob and Shelley Again
SteveHopwood wrote:Version 1v is in post 1.

From the updated user guide:
  • StackBreakevenLineColour: once BASA is stacking trades, they are treated as a basket. BASA draws a breakeven line on the chart and closes the basket if the market reaches the line. This allows you to chose your own colour – the default is Magenta.
  • StackBreakevenProfitPips: this is a dynamic profit-lock input. BASA multiplies this input by the number of open trades in the basket and adds it to (buys) or subtracts it from (sells) the breakeven price. For example: four open trades so BASA adds 20 pips to the breakeven line price for buys, or subtracts for sells.
The actual closure function has yet to be tested but the code is straight forward enough.

:D
Great stuff Steve. I will definitely be updating to use this.

Thanks
Dave.
Author:  fxozgirl [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob and Shelley Again
SteveHopwood wrote:Version 1v is in post 1.

From the updated user guide:
  • StackBreakevenLineColour: once BASA is stacking trades, they are treated as a basket. BASA draws a breakeven line on the chart and closes the basket if the market reaches the line. This allows you to chose your own colour – the default is Magenta.
  • StackBreakevenProfitPips: this is a dynamic profit-lock input. BASA multiplies this input by the number of open trades in the basket and adds it to (buys) or subtracts it from (sells) the breakeven price. For example: four open trades so BASA adds 20 pips to the breakeven line price for buys, or subtracts for sells.
The actual closure function has yet to be tested but the code is straight forward enough.

:D
Brilliant Steve...I will be uploading this version to all my demo's with stack trades enabled. I'll be leaving slope enabled as well.
If this works as we hope, I'll be very close to letting this run on my live account.

Thanks again

Shelley

BTW...BASA had an absolute blast overnight and still going :lol:
Author:  SteveHopwood [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob and Shelley Again
fxozgirl wrote:BTW...BASA had an absolute blast overnight and still going :lol:
Yes, as I remarked in an earlier post, they do not happen often but when they do.............
Noname.gif
In real life, given that I am awake to witness it and that the basket is about 3% of account up would I leave it? Not a prayer. I would close it and bank the profits. :lol:

It is a demo, so I am leaving all alone to see if either the basket tp works or the basket sl is hit and works.

:D
Author:  SteveHopwood [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bob and Shelley Again
Something for you guys to think about.

I have BE set to 30 with +2. From there I have a jumping stop of 50 pips.

The final trade in that pic I just posted closed at +2. I assume the basket breakeven line has reset appropriately - don't know but the code should have taken care of it.

So, my question is this: once BASA is in basket mode, what should happen to individual trade stop losses and management features?

:D
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