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Ducks pointer!
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Author:  Aussiedoc [ Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Ducks pointer!
G'day!

Firstly! I have to thank Steve, George, Gary, Nanningbob, NeoTrader and Baluda for their phenomenal contribution to this Forum that has allowed me to get this far. It has been a very steep learning curve for me!

Unfortunately, like many people these days, due to occupational stress my health has suffered. Furthermore; recently 2 of my children were made redundant - so the pressure is on to find other streams of income.

Therefore, I would like to ask for some assistance with an indicator that I can use with my system (Ducks in a Row viewtopic.php?p=3204#p3204).

My system started as a pretty simple manual one that works on all timeframes (see attached jpegs). Since Steve created an EA to allow me to trade automatically; I have learned to my chagrin, dismay and cost that there is NO substitute for trading live. So I am back at square one - having learned a heck of a lot in between! :lol: :lol:

What I am hoping that someone can assist me with is an indicator with the same alerts as the SMA Cross I already use that, instead of triggering when the MAs cross, will trigger on the open of the first candle after the MA cross when Ducks 1 & 3 and the 10.2 TMA SlopeTrue indicator bars all align (Green=Long/Red=Short).

Please find attached the original Ducks indicator and template (of which I only use the Ducks 1 & 3 Bars), the 10.2 TMASlopeTrue, the SMA Cross Indicator ND THE Template I use.

Thank very much in anticipation

Cheers

Doc


PS The bars on the jpegs are my markers to let me know when to move my stops one step behind.
Author:  garyfritz [ Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ducks pointer!
So Doc, you have determined the EA is not going to work for you? Why is that? Do you do better in your live trading than the EA does, and if so, why? Are you applying some discretionary filters that you couldn't code into the EA?

Ducks has undergone several redesigns and simplifications in the last year. Do you have a doc (not a Doc :lol:) that describes the system as you currently trade it?

I am currently out of state on a business trip and won't be available until around Christmas, but if nobody else steps up, I will try to help you with this. I have almost as good an opinion of indicator-writing as Steve does :lol: and have lost many gray hairs beating my brains against indicators in the past, but I'll see what I can do...
Author:  Aussiedoc [ Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ducks pointer!
garyfritz wrote:So Doc, you have determined the EA is not going to work for you? Why is that? Do you do better in your live trading than the EA does, and if so, why? Are you applying some discretionary filters that you couldn't code into the EA?
Gary, g'day! Thanks for the quick reply! :D I really appreciate you being prepared to have a look at this for me! Can't tell you how much it means!

Steve originally told me that, because of the multiple programming variables that my trading method produces, that an EA would, at best, be a work-around. I accept that, and being the eternal optimist that I am, have, unsuccessfully so far, spent many a long hour twisting and tweaking every which-way from Sunday in an attempt to get them to work in the same manner as I trade.
Ducks has undergone several redesigns and simplifications in the last year. Do you have a doc (not a Doc :lol:) that describes the system as you currently trade it?

I am currently out of state on a business trip and won't be available until around Christmas, but if nobody else steps up, I will try to help you with this. I have almost as good an opinion of indicator-writing as Steve does :lol: and have lost many gray hairs beating my brains against indicators in the past, but I'll see what I can do...
Gary, yep! Currently I run 6 indicators (a simple 1 & 20 MA; the Ducks 1 & 3 of George's original Ducks template [Modified to the SMA1 & 6 values]; the 10.2 TMASlopeTrue and the SMA Crossover Signal)

Our trading methodology is (I trade the D1 & H4 - the girls the H1 & M30):
1. Wait until the 1 & 20 MAs cross after a change-of-direction pivot and the SMA Crossover signal triggers the custom alert.wav
2. Take a note of the day and time.
3. Check each subsequent bar until the Ducks 1, Ducks 3 & 10.2 TMASlopeTrue all show similar coloured bars (Green=Long/Red=Short)
4. Enter the trade. SL = the preceding H/L pivot open + spread; TP = the 10.2 TMASlopeTrue value crosses the 0 line in the opposite direction.
5. I measure the pip spread between the entry and the SL - then incrementally move my SL forward in progressive orders of the Entry-SL value until either an opposite MA cross or a retracement that triggers the stop loss.

The internal values of the Ducks Indi have been recompiled to

Code: Select all

duck 1 - 
extern int FastMA=1;
extern int SlowMA=20; 

duck 4 - 
extern int  RSI_Bars_For_Angle=3;
extern int RSI_Points_For_Angle=5;
and, after a lot of playing around, the 10.2 TMA SlopeTrue edbHigh/Low1 values changed to +/- 0.1.

Gary, that's it pretty much! Very simple; pretty effective! ( Well! WE think so! :lol: :lol: )

Now the girls have been made redundant and my doctor has ordered me to dramatically reduce my work-load :oops: :lol: :lol: I now want to seriously trade the shorter time frames. That's where I believe the indicator will come into its own by allowing us to concentrate the currencies related to specific markets.

Y'all take care now! We (Rhiannon, Sian and me) wish you a very safe & happy Christmas/New Year period.

Thanks for everything. :D
Cheers
Author:  garyfritz [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ducks pointer!
Aussiedoc wrote:The problem I continue to have with the EAs is that I cannot seem to get them to work in the same manner I trade.
That could be due to several causes. Bugs in the EA are one possibility, but other likely suspects are:
* Maybe you didn't manage to communicate to Steve exactly what you do?
* Maybe you honestly don't KNOW exactly what it is you do? (This is very common!!!)
* Maybe you don't always consistently/mechanically follow the rules? (Also VERY common!)

Any of these, especially 2 and 3, are big concerns for anyone else interested in your strategy. If you're subconsciously filtering out trades because they "don't look right," and you can't describe what you're doing subconsciously, nobody else can trade it the way you do. And nobody can code it into an EA. I've encountered this with nearly every discretionary trader I've ever worked with.
Our trading methodology is (I trade the D1 & H4 - the girls the H1 & M30):
That seems reasonably straightforward. I'll have to look back to remember what Ducks 1 & 3 are. Some clarifications:
1. Wait until the 1 & 20 MAs cross after a change-of-direction pivot and the SMA Crossover signal triggers the custom alert.wav
How do you define the change-of-direction pivot?
5. I measure the pip spread between the entry and the SL - then incrementally move my SL forward in progressive orders of the Entry-SL value until either an opposite MA cross or a retracement that triggers the stop loss.
So it's a jumping stop? When the price gets to Entry + (Entry-SL), you move the SL to Entry? And when it gets to Entry + 2*(Entry-SL) you move it to Entry + (Entry-SL), etc?
Now the girls have been made redundant and I my doctor has ordered me to dramatically reduce my work-load :oops: :lol: :lol:
Sorry to hear about your daughters' challenges and your health problems!! I hope you like eating roast duck. :-)

Gary
Author:  Aussiedoc [ Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ducks pointer!
garyfritz wrote:
Aussiedoc wrote:The problem I continue to have with the EAs is that I cannot seem to get them to work in the same manner I trade.
That could be due to several causes. Bugs in the EA are one possibility, but other likely suspects are:
* Maybe you didn't manage to communicate to Steve exactly what you do?
* Maybe you honestly don't KNOW exactly what it is you do? (This is very common!!!)
* Maybe you don't always consistently/mechanically follow the rules? (Also VERY common!)
Because I live in a medical/healing oriented world; I'd say it would be a combination of the above. Remembering the debacle of my first attempts to describe my system in technical terms; I would be astonished if either Steve or George have ANY hair left! :lol: :lol: So I will do my best not to be so obtuse/vague this time around.
Any of these, especially 2 and 3, are big concerns for anyone else interested in your strategy. If you're subconsciously filtering out trades because they "don't look right," and you can't describe what you're doing subconsciously, nobody else can trade it the way you do. And nobody can code it into an EA. I've encountered this with nearly every discretionary trader I've ever worked with.
Seen! To get the girls up to speed I have printed out a stepped run sheet similar to the methodology I gave you; that they have to follow.

Dad's rule #1 - Follow the rules until you don't need to follow the rules - then go back to the rules and follow the rules. :lol:
Our trading methodology is (I trade the D1 & H4 - the girls the H1 & M30):

That seems reasonably straightforward. I'll have to look back to remember what Ducks 1 & 3 are.
Ducks1 = MA cross
Ducks 3 = RSI >55/<45
1. Wait until the 1 & 20 MAs cross after a change-of-direction pivot and the SMA Crossover signal triggers the custom alert.wav.
How do you define the change-of-direction pivot?
Price trending in one direction; direction changes; last bar in previous direction = pivot bar IF price continues in new direction AND 1st, 2nd or 3rd bar open >< pivot bar open. Gary, I recall Steve saying that Fractals are a very accurate way of charting swing high/lows, pivots, changes in trend direction. :?: :?: :?:
5. I measure the pip spread between the entry and the SL - then incrementally move my SL forward in progressive orders of the Entry-SL value until either an opposite MA cross or a retracement that triggers the stop loss.
So it's a jumping stop? When the price gets to Entry + (Entry-SL), you move the SL to Entry? And when it gets to Entry + 2*(Entry-SL) you move it to Entry + (Entry-SL), etc?
Yep!
Now the girls have been made redundant and I my doctor has ordered me to dramatically reduce my work-load :oops: :lol: :lol:
Sorry to hear about your daughters' challenges and your health problems!! I hope you like eating roast duck. :-)

Gary
Down in this neck of the world we have a saying; "S**t happens!" Until today I was blaming the Mayan calendar. As the world here has not yet come to a cataclysmic end I think it's going to be business a usual. :roll: :lol: :lol:

Sian, my youngest recently gave me one of my truisms - Strength of character is the speed with which you get back on your feet after a trauma -- not the number of times!

My preference is Peking Roast Duck!

Y'all take care now.

Mark (aka Doc)
Author:  garyfritz [ Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ducks pointer!
Aussiedoc wrote:Seen! To get the girls up to speed I have printed out a stepped run sheet similar to the methodology I gave you; that they have to follow.
Ah right! If you're able to give them a list of rules to follow, and if that's working for them, then that's a pretty good indication that you've encapsulated the rules you ACTUALLY trade pretty well. Is it working well for them so far?
Dad's rule #1 - Follow the rules until you don't need to follow the rules - then go back to the rules and follow the rules. :lol:
LOL! And tell them it's not just them -- ANY trader has to follow his rules. At least until s/he gets so good that the rules are entirely internalized and subconsciously improved. That's a hard point to get to -- I never have.

Gary
Author:  Aussiedoc [ Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ducks pointer!
garyfritz wrote:
Aussiedoc wrote:Seen! To get the girls up to speed I have printed out a stepped run sheet similar to the methodology I gave you; that they have to follow.

Ah right! If you're able to give them a list of rules to follow, and if that's working for them, then that's a pretty good indication that you've encapsulated the rules you ACTUALLY trade pretty well. Is it working well for them so far?
Gary, it's only been about 3 weeks since they started. They watched me trade for the first week as I walked them through the methodology... and made money on my live account! Then I chucked them in at the deep end! The greatest fun has been listening to their voices as they watched the system work for them!

Everyone around me knows the term "The eye of a believer!" Once anyone experiences a positive change-of-mental/physical/psychological state, above and beyond their present norm, that can be directly attributed to a recently introduced causal factor (eg a restorative alternate methodology I have prescribed) -- from that moment onwards they are a believer! They know they are going to recover... and, from then on, everyone around them is amazed as they witness the almost overnight physiological/psychological changes that occur.

The girls are believers! They have seen me use my system to make money... and now they have also done it using the same system. Now; every time they sit down to trade they KNOW that it is not a matter of will they or won't they make money - it is how much will they make in the time they have alloted.

That's where, if it is at all possible to create one, the indicator will come into its own!

Instead of the present - hear/see the alert... and then wait for, and quite often miss, the entry point -- by being able to target the entry point far more accurately the indicator will increase our trading potential exponentially! Something we are all looking forwards to!

It is not nice being snookered behind the 8 ball!
Dad's rule #1 - Follow the rules until you don't need to follow the rules - then go back to the rules and follow the rules. :lol:
LOL! And tell them it's not just them -- ANY trader has to follow his rules. At least until s/he gets so good that the rules are entirely internalized and subconsciously improved. That's a hard point to get to -- I never have.
Gary, they are looking over my shoulder as I write this!
Rhiannon's comment; "We are very lucky to know Gary, aren't we Dad... because he knows what it's all about, doesn't he?? I think that he's been burned a couple of dozen times or more like you, Dad!"

Thanks from us all.
Cheers,
Mark, Rhiannon & Sian :D
Author:  garyfritz [ Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ducks pointer!
Aussiedoc wrote:Gary, it's only been about 3 weeks since they started. They watched me trade for the first week as I walked them through the methodology... and made money on my live account! ...
The girls are believers! They have seen me use my system to make money... and now they have also done it using the same system. Now; every time they sit down to trade they KNOW that it is not a matter of will they or won't they make money - it is how much will they make in the time they have alloted.
You tell them they are bl***y lucky to have such a good teacher! To teach someone to trade, profitably, in a few weeks... I'm *STILL* trying to figure that out!
Rhiannon's comment; "We are very lucky to know Gary, aren't we Dad... because he knows what it's all about, doesn't he?? I think that he's been burned a couple of dozen times or more like you, Dad!"
Hah! If I had it all figured out, I wouldn't still be working for a living!! (Said the road warrior, typing in the airport after a week away from home...) Rhiannon, I have plenty of burns and scars, but in some ways your Dad's got this working better for him than I do!

I definitely must study the Ducks. In my ever-so-copious free time... :?
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