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| Author: | ironrick [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | MA Cross with TF agreement based MM |
Hello Everyone, I wanted to share a strategy that I learned from an acquaintance of mine. Actually I know a whole group of professional traders (guys who make their living from trading) who trade this method. I have not read of it anywhere else, but don't know how widely known the method is or who else to attribute it to. I traded it manually for a while on demo but the account got messed up so I don't have my performance figures, sorry. It is a trend following MA Cross system with some unique money management/scaling in and out functionality. I wanted to know what people thought of MA cross strategies before posting this one, hence my questions/poll here -- "Quick opinion: MA Cross strategies" http://www.stevehopwoodforex.com/phpBB3 ... ?f=6&t=162 It seemed like I was in friendly territory so here we go! I was hoping Steve or George or Gary or ?? might try to make it automated. It is purely a mechanical strategy but does have some "trading style" options that can be set that give it slightly different trading behaviors (but still totally mechanical). The default method is a 24/7 trader and so doing this manually can be a bit of a bear -- it must be checked at least every 4 hours, even at night. And that is one of the main reasons I am hoping for an EA. (I am USA Pacific time - GMT-8 - which is about the worst hours you can be at for trying to trade forex.) This post is VERY long but that is not because the strategy is very complex. Please read it all the way through. I have provided a PDF version of the strategy description as well. It might be easier to read than the on the forum. I am trying for 3 things: 1) to OVER communicate all that is required for the strategy -- I don't want whoever takes this up to keep having to ask questions about too many things or for me to have to send a bunch of posts/emails/PMs to them to say "oh yeah, I forgot to tell you these 3 other mission critical functions..." Don't want to anger the Steve! 2) This post is using a "trading strategies description" template that I hope will be useful to others as they try to describe new trading ideas. If folks like the use of this template I/we will make a blank version available to download. Thoughts on the template should go here: http://www.stevehopwoodforex.com/phpBB3 ... ?f=12&t=80 3) I am hoping someone will find this trading strategy interesting enough to help program an EA for it. Basic Info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Strategy Name: Miller MA Cross (MMAC) Don’t know who came up with the system originally and I have never heard of it anywhere else, so I will name it after the guy who taught it to me. If others know the origin we can change the name. Strategy Style: Trend Follower with two trading style options Favored Market Conditions: Trending, but handles a certain amount of ranging well. Entry Signal style: MA Cross with TF agreement based unit size Expected Trading Frequency: Style 1 -- 2 TF Agreement = Potentially intraday. Style 2 -- 3 TF Agreement = Potentially intraday and would be “always in.” Strategy Expected Moves per trade: 10-500+ pips Description ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Overall Trade strategy Description: When TFs agree on trend, we have a high probability trade. Lower TF Crosses are early signals of higher TF Price Action. This strategy trades 1 unit of risk in the direction of the MA trend per time frame compared. EDIT -- UPDATE 1-4-12, 5:30PM: Basically this strategy views each TF being compared as worth a +1/bullish or -1/Bearish score. The scores of each TF are added together to get a composite score. That composite score is the number of units of risk and the direction of the trade. For example: 3 bullish TFs = +3 composite score = 3 units of risk. If we are using .01 lots as our "per unit of risk lotsize" then a score of +3 = going long .03 lots. If, on the next check of the TFs, we have a composite score that changes to +1 that means not all the TF's agree on on the trend so we have less confidence in the trend. We would reduce our position size from (+3 score = 3 units of risk = .03 lots) to (+1 score = 1 unit of risk = .01 lots). That is pretty much the whole model. When we have more confidence in the trend we increase our risk, when we have less confidence we reduce or eliminate our risk. Confidence is determined by comparing the trend on several different TFs. The max risk is the max number of TFs being compared if they are all bullish/bearish. (End Update) (See Scaling in section for more info on how this works.) Why it works: Follows trend. Aligns trades for higher probability of move. Higher profits when strong trend. What is the "EDGE": By having TFs agree, aligns trades for higher probability of move. Higher profits when strong trend. Follows Price Action of “The Boss” higher TF as it dictates trends to lower TFs -- until a reversal. We can then follow the reversal for as long as it lasts. Rinse, repeat. Money management plays a large part in the success of this system -- multiple units of risk allow us to increase earnings on stronger, longer lasting moves and have less or no risk during times of ranging or “market confusion”. Strategy Details --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Time Frames: Default: Style 1 = 8h, 1D or Style 2 = 4h, 8h 1D. The 8h will have to be synthesised with the number of periods in the MA indicator on a 4h chart. Default uses 10/30 period MA cross on all TFs as trade signals. (But EA to have all TFs and MA periods as variables... Also option to use additional TFs... see Options section.) Times to Trade: Default is a 24/7 system. Check if MA has Crossed on all TFs at opening of lowest TF‘s new bar. (Can be setup to be 24/5 or only certain hours... see options section. Testing will show if this has any impact.) Pairs To Trade: Majors, any low-spread trending pair. If using with multiple pairs, watch out for high correlation. We may want to keep the EA a single pair trader for now though. Money Management/ Risk Management: Default: fixed lot size as a base unit of risk. Can use any size lot that matches your risk tolerance and account size. There is one unit of risk per TF used. So if you are using 3 TFs you could have a max of 3 units of risk open at any one time. The system can have some times of DD as the MA cross lags price or becuase of spread costs during choppy bits. However the MM of this system is supposed to overcome this weakness quickly and still be very profitable. Note: It is the MM side of this that makes this system very interesting to me and not just another “X,Y Cross” method. This is the heart of this system: Overall position size is determined by Time Frame Agreement or specifically: Multiple Time Frame Trend Agreement. Stated another way: “We have more money invested when we have a higher confidence of the trend. If all of the TFs agree, we can be more confident of the trend and have a higher investment in the market at that time. When TFs disagree we have less confidence in the direction of the market and therefore exit entirely or have only a small amount of risk in the markets at that time.” This has the added benefit of helping 1) smooth out the lag of the crosses, 2) bring in many more [/b]pips during times of longer runs up or down and 3) larger pips on stronger moves helps overcome any losses due to times of ranging or several MA Crosses happening in a row without the markets making a definitive move. System uses Scaling in/out: Yes. Here is how the process works. FastMA over(on top of) SlowMA = Go Long = +1 (Think of it as a Long unit of risk) = +1 Bullish Position SlowMA over(on top of) FastMA = Go short = -1 (Think of it as a Short unit of risk) = -1 Bearish Position At any given time, each TF will be giving you a +1/Bullish or or -1/Bearish signal. These signals are added up to give a total Bullish position or total Bearish position. 3 TF Examples (not all possible combinations): 4h 8h 1d +1 +1 +1= +3 = Bullish/Long 3 units -- Strong trend, higher confidence, larger risk 4h 8h 1d -1 -1 -1= -3 = Bearish/Short 3 units -- Strong trend, higher confidence, larger risk 4h 8h 1d +1 +1 -1= +1 = Bullish/Long 1 Unit -- Less confidence in trend, smaller risk 4h 8h 1d -1 -1 +1= -1 = Bearish/Short 1 Unit -- Less confidence in trend, smaller risk Note: With 3 TFs you are always in the market with a minimum of 1 unit or the max of 3 units. 2 TF Example (not all possible combinations): 8h 1d +1 +1= +2 Bullish/Long 2 units -- Strong trend, higher confidence, larger risk 8h 1dP -1 -1= -2 Bearish/Short 2 units -- Strong trend, higher confidence, larger risk 8h 1d -1 +1= 0 Positions -- Out of the market until Confidence in trend returns, no risk IMPORTANT: This system can have full position reversals. If you are bullish +2 and on the next MA cross check get signals to be bearish -2 then you must be short *4* units. 2 to get to a neutral position and 2 more to get to the -2 short position. Reverse for short position reversal to long position. Always be thinking of the total position the signals say you should have and then what must be done to get there. Order types: Uses market orders for all entries or position reversals at time of MA cross check Stops Management: Original Strategy does not use stops, but I think it would be good to have the ability to have some emergency based and/or margin based, equity based, Max DD style stops. JIC. (Just In Case) Indicators required plus any custom settings: I am hoping the EA could be built around AllAverages so that different MA styles and periods can easily be used/tested. Default settings are: MA Style = SimpleMA Fast MA = 10 Period Slow MA = 30 Period Default = All TFs use the same MA style and periods. These can all be adjusted based on testing. For instance, I have a friend who has been testing this using a 4/11 cross instead of the 10/30. Seems to do well. I would probably be switching to an EMA instead of the SMA. Seems to not lag as badly in general. Time will tell. Trade conditions: See Scaling in section above and Options for Startup below to see description and more info I believe all entries and exits are discussed in the sections listed above. If more info is need, please let me know. Trade Entry Long Trade Exit Long Trade Entry Short Trade Exit Long Max Number of Trades conditions: None for now. Between trade conditions: There are options when scaling in the first time, and needing to be aware if closing or reversing trades depending on #of TFs used. But this is discussed in the above text. Optional trade filters: None for now. Specific Options to include: On the number of TFs to compare: I would like the option of comparing up to 7 TFs (default is 2 or 3). This will still allow the default setups but let us test the effects of using more TF agreements. Each of the 7 TFs should have the following options: TF 1(etc): Any of Empty4’s default TFs MA Type: Default is SMA, but could be any of AllAverages MA options MA Fast Period: Default is 10 MA Slow Period: Default is 30 Lot size for this TF: Default is that all TFs use same lot size but would be interesting to test results if certain TFs had a higher lot size weighting than others. Remember that you could have as many as (if all the same) 7 units of risk open at any one time if using all 7 time frames. On When to trade the Crosses: There are 2 options for when to trade the crosses. Options are mutually exclusive, cannot have both true or both false. TradeOnNewBar: True/False -- Default -- EA always checks the state of each TF for crosses at the opening of the lowest TF’s new bar. This is also the least CPU intensive as it only has to check for crosses at the new bar. TradeOnCross: True/False -- This would cause updated trade signals at the actual moment of the cross. It would require continuous monitoring of all TFs while looking for a cross. Other trading behaviours remain the same -- add all the TFs bullish/bearish signals for a total long/short position and then trade to match that position. On building into a position: When the EA starts how do we want to get into a trade -- these settings affect the building of your position on startup. Only one of the 4 options can be true. The impact of your choice will not be huge if trading 24/7 because there will be few starts. But if one chooses to trade 24/5 (stopping for the weekend) or use some other Time to Trade settings or start and stop the EA often, it could have a greater effect. ScaleInOnLowToHighTFCrosses: True/False -- Default behavior. Build into positions starting by waiting for lowest TF cross on new bar. Basically follow as if a 1 TF strategy until a cross on the next highest TF at the new bar of the lowest TF. Then continue as the normal 2 TF strategy and build your bullish/bearish position. Keep adding TFs to compare as the next highest TF crosses on the new bar of the lowest TF. GetInOnNewBarLowTFCrossWithFullPosition: True/False -- Wait for Cross on new bar of lowest TF and then check all signals from all TFs and take that position to start. GetInOnLowTFCrossWithFullPosition: True/False -- Wait for moment of Cross of lowest TF and then check all signals from all TFs and take that position to start. (Same as above except don’t wait for new bar.) TakeFullPositionOnStartup: True/False -- Don’t wait for any crosses or new bars, simply read the bullish/bearish signals of all TFs and take that position to start. On when to trade: Needs options to control at least: Trade 24/7? Trade 24/5? Trade XX day and YY hours through WW day and ZZ Hour? Trade everyday from YY hours to ZZ hours.? (Maybe George’s recent time modules?) End of Strategy Description. Please let me know what you think!! Cheers and many pips, Rick |
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| Author: | gaheitman [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MA Cross with TF agreement based MM |
Rick, Looks interesting. One quick question, for the TradeOnCross option, aren't you concerned that an MA cross will trigger back and forth in the same bar as the FastMA crosses back and forth over the SlowMA? This would cause multiple Closes/Opens, potentially with every few ticks. Would you actually want to TradeOnFirstCross so that you only changed the +1 / -1 score for a TF once per bar? Or once per lowest TF's bar? I like the template. How about a quick entry near the top that specifies whether it requires hedging or not ? EDIT: OK, I should have thought about it longer.... Which trade would you want to close when your score drops from +3 to +2. Do you close the worst trade, best trade, or the trade that was opened for the time frame that changed? George |
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| Author: | gaheitman [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MA Cross with TF agreement based MM |
Attached is an indicator that shows the simplest form of the score. It provides the option for a single FastMA, SlowMA and MA Mode, and only allows you to use any combination of the 7 standard periods M1-D1. The score is a histogram and whenever it changes, you would open/close orders appropriately. For example, if the histogram drops from +4 to +2, you would close two buy orders. This should help folks visualize the strategy. George |
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| Author: | ironrick [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MA Cross with TF agreement based MM |
You are right, of course. I had thought of this at one point and then it got lost in the shuffle along with some writers block as I was trying to finish up the trade description so I could get it posted.... As I am thinking through you question I think it should be added as an additional option. The strategy so far has two options for "When to trade the Crosses" -- this would be a third. It basically would be a method "in-between" the other 2 options. I would like to see it as a TradeOnFirstCrossOnce option. I like your suggestion that it would change the +1/-1 score once per lowest TF's bar. This gives some ability for the score to have meaningful change within a high/er TF bar/s without orders flipping back and forth excessively. I am glad you like the template -- I have added your suggestion to it! Excellent idea. Thanks for the feedback! I had thought of this too... same lame excuse. I had been thinking that the EA should close the oldest orders first. Of course that didn't make it into the document.... My main reasoning for this was simply my understanding of USA FIFO rules... I was thinking that most US crims would not allow us the (possibly) better choices you suggest. What if we made these options as well. I am not sure exactly how they would affect profitability but some testing should be able to tell us. This way others not affected by stupid US rules could pick the best option. We could make the options be: CloseOldestTradeFirst (make this the default?) CloseWorstTradeFirst CloseBestTradeFirst CloseTFThatChangedFirst I think that last one would be the hardest to code...? I am totally open to suggestions of how to handle this part -- it was never super well defined to me when I learned the strategy. Please flog these ideas to death -- I just want to be helpful! Rick |
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| Author: | ironrick [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MA Cross with TF agreement based MM |
This is GREAT - I am downloading to play with it right now... I could see this being really helpful to run alongside the EA to help visualize the appropriate behaviors/setups etc. (So long as all the final logic was the same, of course.) Thanks so much for your help! I couldn't believe the time listed on your post!! You must have been up all night! Rick |
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| Author: | ironrick [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MA Cross with TF agreement based MM |
Thanks for the feedback, Khalid! I am glad you liked it! Further thoughts on testing: If an EA for this method is created I believe that we could use Strategy Tester to get some gross feedback of which settings work the best. (Highest profit, lowest drawdown) This is because the default trading behavior of only trading on the opening of the lowest TF new bar makes it so the system doesn't require full on tick for tick perfection to handle its trading decisions. (It is my understanding that tick data accuracy is the greatest problem with Strategy Tester.) So long as that trading logic option is selected, I think a lot of other options could be tested rather quickly... I wouldn't necessarily trust the equity curve and account growth numbers... but it could help. Or maybe Gary could knock something together for TradeStation as well! R |
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| Author: | ironrick [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MA Cross with TF agreement based MM |
AND HOW!! Just got done doing some testing... The indicator is EXTREMELY helpful in showing what all the signals are doing!! I have found for instance that if you are using lower timeframes (in this case 30m, 1h, 4h) that smaller period for the MAs works much better. I found the 4/11 period worked extremely well. There are still obvious lags here and there, but it seems to catch the larger moves VERY well. I have found that if doing the higher TFs you really need to be able to do an 8h or 12h period because the jump from 4h to 24H (1D) is too large. Very interesting... the plot thickens... Thanks again, George! Rick Now to |
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| Author: | ironrick [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MA Cross with TF agreement based MM |
I have not heard of this connection with Fourier before -- I will google it. Do you have any links at your fingertips? I definitely agree with not OVER optimizing or curve fitting. I do think there are certain things one can test for that have benefit. (Such as measuring a win/loss %, noting a system's MaxDD, overall ROI -- when possible, etc.) Based on our PMs I agree. It is one thing to say "take the smallest lotsize possible" (especially during testing), and another to develop an actual position sizing model that works when trading a real money account. It may be easier to synthesize all the TFs by using different periods, operating all from the same and lowest TF setting. There will be subtle differences... but shouldn't behave too badly/differently. Great feedback!! Rick |
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| Author: | ironrick [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MA Cross with TF agreement based MM |
I have updated the language in the "Overall Trade strategy Description" section based on some PMs asking for additional clarity. Update in post 1. Thanks for the feedback. R |
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| Author: | ironrick [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MA Cross with TF agreement based MM |
Yeah! What he said! This should go on a standalone post somewhere as general advice. I can see how this solves several issues from our previous discussions. I agree, hence my posting the idea and making the request! We are part way there with George's indi -- enough, I think, to show that the system has a lot of promise... But we are aren't quite there yet with being able to do full tests and -- especially -- get that all important average loss number. The one shortcut to a full Empty4 EA is if tests would be able to be done on some other platform. One that might be both easier to automate and have better backtesting abilities... Then if it still shows promise the Empty4 version could be built. All of that is to say, I am just trying to help by finding the path of least resistance in further proving/testing of this strategy. Thanks once more for the great feedback! Any takers on getting this thing built? Rick |
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