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My philosophy of Trading
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Author:  nanningbob [ Sat May 17, 2014 2:27 am ]
Post subject:  My philosophy of Trading

I want traders to be able to speak about their trading styles. I have had people wanting me to talk about MM and trading philosophy. I always thought about writing a book about it but I am tired or writing. So as questions and thoughts come up I will post them here. Hopefully Steve and the gang wont mind. I am in a debate again over at FF over trading styles. Not everyone agrees with me. In fact the majority of traders would, I understand I am in the minority. I am not a big SL person. I understand that but how I trade works over the long run and is profitable. Here is a summary of my trading philosophy and MM and some of this comes from my debates at ForexFactory (FF). Feel free to disagree or post a different point of view but I wanted to keep my trading philosophy in one spot instead of hodge podge all over my threads. Any good luck and have fun.

If you have not read Khalaad's 'Nuggets' you should go there and enjoy a ton of trading wisdom. I enjoy going there and reading the thoughts in my free time.

http://www.stevehopwoodforex.com/phpBB3 ... f=23&t=248



This if from a post at FF.


3 years ago, I got hammered here at FF for teaching some of these things. I decided to spend more of my time at another forum. Since then I have had many PMs and Emails thanking me for publicly sharing such thoughts as others had been trading similar styles. Since then many traders have come out now and wont put up with the garbage posted by a small but very vocal group of trading with a fraction of a penny SL. Decades ago I used to work for Disney world and they had a program where you bought their stock every week using a percentage of your income. It was based on the simple fact that you believed over a period of time the stock would go up. No one was putting in SL or going for fractions of penny profits. You just bought in small increments and eventually you were on the winning side. Some entrances going profitable sooner than others. The key was to just keep buying into the trend.

Forex is different in that there is no such thing as a currency going up forever or going down forever. What it does is range between two points as business takes place. If you study the monthly charts and go back 20-40 years you can see that price stays with a certain range with a couple of exceptions. For example the eur/usd for the last 15 years has stayed between 1.25 and 1.50 with the exception of a handful of months in 2008. It stays in a range. Knowing this you trade that range. Going up with it until it gets above 1.40-1.50 and go down with until it goes below 1.25-1.30. You play those ups and downs inside that range and you can be a very successful trader. In the last 7 years there have been 11 major trend changes in the euro. All you have to do is follow those long term trends. I actually take more SL than I need too and that is mainly because I have a tendency to overtrade playing with smaller lots and I have to close some out if my total trades to account size starts getting to big. When you have 20-40 trades going at all times every day I can take a profit, several times a day. Occasionally when I see the trend direction has changed on a currency I close out and start the other way.

They snickered and laughed and mocked but every month my account grows and after several years of trading I have taken back my original investment out a long time ago and have been playing with house money. No more beating myself up about my entrances and exits, no worrying about leaving the computer on all night or going out. No more worrying about news stories or avoiding news events. When I travel and fly overseas back and forth from Asia to the USA and back I dont have to close out my trades and restart. I land get a good nights sleep and check my computer. AHHHHH look at all those trades that went into profit. One time there wasnt any and I set my next set of trades as I caught all the reversals back to the median. Day in, day out, week in, week out, month in, month out, year in, year out: over and over and over my DD is statice between 0-10% occasionally going to 20% (thats when I cant believe a currency is changing direction and get stubborn, usually the CHF) but at 20% I take that 3-7% loss and continue on.

The only thing that matters is my account balance keeps growing and occasionally I have to use my profits to close out some negative trades. DD is static day after day, month after month, year after year but the account balance grows. It is like interest every month being applied to your account. 5-10% every month. 5% a month over 3.5 years equals 7X your original account balance. If you dont understand compound interest and how it grows money over time you wont understand this. If you do and can understand that trading ten or twenty cent trades on 10K of account can constantly accumulate an a account to grow to 70K in 3.5 years then trading seventy cent to one dollar and half per lot and build to 490K in 7 years, etc. You then begin to understand that a frozen or fixed DD in the 5-15% doesnt bother us you can then begin to grasp how we trade. We may not use the same trading methods and you can be like ..................... and argue to your blue in the face that you can trade the same way using single trades (you really cant, it wont work using SL). The reason it is so difficult to trade with tight SL is when you close the loss you face the same problem. It is like negative interest, instead of a floating loss that never accumulates you are accumulating losses that act just like interest in reverse on your account and it slowly or quickly drains it away. (Depending on lot size to account size)

The bottom line is I went to bed at the beginning of the USA session on Friday and wont touch my account until Monday. I had nothing to worry about. No matter what price did I will be able to trade again on Monday.

I trade in a way that allows me to trade again the next day. I trade in a way that allows me to sleep all night, take multiple day trips away from my computer, watch a movie on TV when NFP happens every month. Yes that is what I do every NFP. I set my trades for the night about 15M before the market open and watch a movie. Come back in 2 hours and see what happened.

Occasionally when I am convinced a currency has changed directions then I close out and start looking for my best trades the other way. When you finally get really really really frustrated with trading. Go to a monthly chart, find your direction, go to a daily, 4H, or 1H chart and trade in that direction. Then put a 1000 dollars in a account and trade 1 penny lots. When price goes against you 100 pips and its 1 dollar in the hole you go thats nothing. When it goes 1000 pips in the hole and its 10 dollars down you wonder what everyone at FF is getting all excited about. However, since you followed the long term trend you start getting 200 pips here on one currency during a week, and 300 on another and 150 on another and you enter into a trend with mutliple positions and instead of getting 200 you learn how to get 3,4,500 pips on one currency in a week and some SL nut is screaming but you are down 200 pips on some currency but you pocketed 500,1000, 2000, pips on others. You go SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ...................

There are people beginning to understand this about Forex trading. They see that you play the ranges, the long term trends, you trade small lots and in 3 years you are trading ten to twenty cent lots and you now have 7000 in your account and the same bozos are still arguing with you that you are not a trader and you dont know what you are doing and ............................ meanwhile the brokers cant margin you out, SL you out, spike you out, increase your spread and force you out of the market, and they are on the hook for your profit at some point. They hate us because the only profit they will get out of me is the pip spread. You wonder why bluesteele, nubby boy, (I would never put Hanover in this group) come here and spill their vile language all over the screen making sure you dont follow this small group of profitable traders that get it. Some day at some point you will understand the guys who trade with million dollar accounts trade small lots to account size, low leverage, use multiple entrances, follow long term trends, and never trade in a way that puts their account balance at risk. I finally learned those lessons and 3-4 more years of this and I retire. Have a good day.
Author:  nanningbob [ Sat May 17, 2014 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  My philosophy of Trading

Think of it this way. There are traders who do not use their entire lot size in one entrance. They break it up into 3 parts and enter on multiple levels. Let us say you like trading 3 lot sizes. Instead of entering all three at once you enter them as 1 lot size at 3 different spots. This allows you the flexibility to find the spot you want to enter in. Let us say you enter one lot but some sudden news story breaks and give a pair a 2 or 3 day reversal. Well when that run is done you can enter your 2nd lot and then the third at a retracement. You phase in your lot size. This also helps in case you are just plain wrong. Instead of taking a 3 lot loss you now only take a 1 lot loss not having played your whole position. To me this really helps your money management in that you still play your 3 lot size on winning trades but not on your losing trades, unless you have really blown your entrances. If you can grasp the basic principle and follow long term trends then you can make most all your trades profitable. I am a fan of small lot size to account size so as to make trading a relaxing and sometimes boring affair. The concept that you can make pinpoint entrances when you are dealing with a hundredth of a penny move seems ludicrous to me. Give yourself some space and allow trades time to become profitable. Most currencies really only change direction a handleful of times a year you just need to give yourself the room to stay with a price trend. Check your monthly charts and you will see what I mean. Good luck.
Author:  fxozgirl [ Sat May 17, 2014 4:42 am ]
Post subject:  My philosophy of Trading

Thanks Bob for sharing your thoughts & philosophy in regards to MM.

I too do not use SL and trade small enough to never cause me not to sleep. Following your example of trading with the trend with 10.6/10.7 I have grown my live account 64% since 1st January.

I for one am very happy to have you share your thoughts here and hope you continue to do so.

Cheers

Shelley
Author:  slowkey [ Sat May 17, 2014 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  My philosophy of Trading

nanningbob » Fri May 16, 2014 11:14 pm wrote:Think of it this way. There are traders who do not use their entire lot size in one entrance. They break it up into 3 parts and enter on multiple levels. Let us say you like trading 3 lot sizes. Instead of entering all three at once you enter them as 1 lot size at 3 different spots. This allows you the flexibility to find the spot you want to enter in. Let us say you enter one lot but some sudden news story breaks and give a pair a 2 or 3 day reversal. Well when that run is done you can enter your 2nd lot and then the third at a retracement. You phase in your lot size. This also helps in case you are just plain wrong. Instead of taking a 3 lot loss you now only take a 1 lot loss not having played your whole position. To me this really helps your money management in that you still play your 3 lot size on winning trades but not on your losing trades, unless you have really blown your entrances. If you can grasp the basic principle and follow long term trends then you can make most all your trades profitable. I am a fan of small lot size to account size so as to make trading a relaxing and sometimes boring affair. The concept that you can make pinpoint entrances when you are dealing with a hundredth of a penny move seems ludicrous to me. Give yourself some space and allow trades time to become profitable. Most currencies really only change direction a handleful of times a year you just need to give yourself the room to stay with a price trend. Check your monthly charts and you will see what I mean. Good luck.
Very well stated Bob. Mastering trading is mastering the psychology of trading. Part of that is conquered by efficient money management. If you get this component right it takes all the pressure off your trading. I do this all the time placing small lots incrementally. It is for this reason I think the best account is a mini-account that lets you trade nano lots. It makes it easy to size positions to any account size. One can start out in any increment of pennies, nickels or dimes and you can always trade exactly 1 to 2 percent of your account. This type of account allows you to trade all the way up to a standard lot of 10 dollars and that is probably all the flexibility you need. It is the only account a newbie should start out opening. It takes a very small account size to get started so your easily able to find the funds necessary to get started. I have two standard accounts with two different brokers and a third account that is a nano account. I like one of my standard accounts a lot because of the small spreads for scalping but for beginning trading, bots and system development one can not beat a mini-account offering nano-lots. This is one of the things I wished I had understood seven years ago when I first started into learning trading. Putting 10000 dollars into a standard account not knowing Forex was the dumbest thing I ever did but experience is a teacher.

To the other point about the so called experts. I have read so many books by so many so called Forex experts it would make your head spin. Most of these traders backgrounds were in stocks, commodities and options. You will learn more about trading Forex by taking the Baby Pips course that is free and than getting your masters degree here in the fourms. Forex is a different animal. It is macro-economics not micro-economics. It is trading one currency strength against another's weakness. This why CSS is the greatest analysis tool I have ever used. It is enough to change you from a loosing trader to a winning one. Skip all the so called industry analyst and where they say a currency is likely to move. Look to CSS and learn a few basic Macro-Economic concepts and keep your ear to the news. Edit ... Well if you are an intraday trader like me you sort have to do that. I also seldom put in stops any more now that I am using the ribbons system. I know where the resistance and support is located.

Great thread Bob.
Cheers, :)
Doug
Author:  nanningbob [ Sat May 17, 2014 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  My philosophy of Trading

slowkey » Sat May 17, 2014 1:07 pm wrote:
nanningbob » Fri May 16, 2014 11:14 pm wrote:Think of it this way. There are traders who do not use their entire lot size in one entrance. They break it up into 3 parts and enter on multiple levels. Let us say you like trading 3 lot sizes. Instead of entering all three at once you enter them as 1 lot size at 3 different spots. This allows you the flexibility to find the spot you want to enter in. Let us say you enter one lot but some sudden news story breaks and give a pair a 2 or 3 day reversal. Well when that run is done you can enter your 2nd lot and then the third at a retracement. You phase in your lot size. This also helps in case you are just plain wrong. Instead of taking a 3 lot loss you now only take a 1 lot loss not having played your whole position. To me this really helps your money management in that you still play your 3 lot size on winning trades but not on your losing trades, unless you have really blown your entrances. If you can grasp the basic principle and follow long term trends then you can make most all your trades profitable. I am a fan of small lot size to account size so as to make trading a relaxing and sometimes boring affair. The concept that you can make pinpoint entrances when you are dealing with a hundredth of a penny move seems ludicrous to me. Give yourself some space and allow trades time to become profitable. Most currencies really only change direction a handleful of times a year you just need to give yourself the room to stay with a price trend. Check your monthly charts and you will see what I mean. Good luck.
Very well stated Bob. Mastering trading is mastering the psychology of trading. Part of that is conquered by efficient money management. If you get this component right it takes all the pressure off your trading. I do this all the time placing small lots incrementally. It is for this reason I think the best account is a mini-account that lets you trade nano lots. It makes it easy to size positions to any account size. One can start out in any increment of pennies, nickels or dimes and you can always trade exactly 1 to 2 percent of your account. This type of account allows you to trade all the way up to a standard lot of 10 dollars and that is probably all the flexibility you need. It is the only account a newbie should start out opening. It takes a very small account size to get started so your easily able to find the funds necessary to get started. I have two standard accounts with two different brokers and a third account that is a nano account. I like one of my standard accounts a lot because of the small spreads for scalping but for beginning trading, bots and system development one can not beat a mini-account offering nano-lots. This is one of the things I wished I had understood seven years ago when I first started into learning trading. Putting 10000 dollars into a standard account not knowing Forex was the dumbest thing I ever did but experience is a teacher.

To the other point about the so called experts. I have read so many books by so many so called Forex experts it would make your head spin. Most of these traders backgrounds were in stocks, commodities and options. You will learn more about trading Forex by taking the Baby Pips course that is free and than getting your masters degree here in the fourms. Forex is a different animal. It is macro-economics not micro-economics. It is trading one currency strength against another's weakness. This why CSS is the greatest analysis tool I have ever used. It is enough to change you from a loosing trader to a winning one. Skip all the so called industry analyst and where they say a currency is likely to move. Look to CSS and learn a few basic Macro-Economic concepts and keep your ear to the news. Edit ... Well if you are an intraday trader like me you sort have to do that. I also seldom put in stops any more now that I am using the ribbons system. I know where the resistance and support is located.

Great thread Bob.
Cheers, :)
Doug
Great posts and thoughts to both of you. When I started trading the guy who brought me in wanted me to start with 5000. I did 500. It took me less than a month to lose it. I found out years later he gets a commission on every trade I made so 5000 meant more money to him. Had nothing to do with helping me become a good trader. I took my lumps. I remember once I had a 300 dollar account and in one week It was over 800. WOW I IS A TRADER!!! Dumb, took me less than 3 days to lose it. I am done with the chest thumping, I doubled my account in a month crowd. I dont care. I am very comfortable with my goal of getting to a stable income in 4-5 years (which is within a years grasp for me) or continuing on to 7-9 years and retiring. With what I have in the account by next year, early SS and later my pension, life will be comfortable. (well if they dont destroy our economy by then, but I am not that pessimistic. Even the most greedy realize you have to have an economy so they can get richer.) This will be a good place for new traders to hear our stories.
Author:  James Roscoe [ Sat May 17, 2014 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  My philosophy of Trading

"I want traders to be able to speak about their trading styles. I have had people wanting me to talk about MM and trading philosophy. I always thought about writing a book about it but I am tired or writing. So as questions and thoughts come up I will post them here."- nanningbob

Thanks for the opportunity to help you distill your thoughts, bob.

1. You trade 1-4 cents per thousand dollars, and you scale into positions. Without getting too personal, how many parts would you break a final position into?

2. Currencies such as E/U and G/U tend to be very highly correlated. Do you take positions based on the total direction of the major currency ( Long the Euro) or do you treat each currency pair (Long E/U, E/A, E/C, etc) as an independent position?

3. If you do treat each pair as an independent position, do you keep an eye on correlation?

Glad that you have opened this thread! :good:
Author:  nanningbob [ Sun May 18, 2014 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  My philosophy of Trading

James Roscoe » Sun May 18, 2014 7:37 am wrote:"I want traders to be able to speak about their trading styles. I have had people wanting me to talk about MM and trading philosophy. I always thought about writing a book about it but I am tired or writing. So as questions and thoughts come up I will post them here."- nanningbob

Thanks for the opportunity to help you distill your thoughts, bob.

1. You trade 1-4 cents per thousand dollars, and you scale into positions. Without getting too personal, how many parts would you break a final position into?

The maximum I carry is 3, whether I am trend trading or recovery trading. In range trading very difficult to get 3 positions in. Having said that there is usually once maybe twice a year everyone knows a currency is going in one direction. The Fundamental driver is very obvious. Last year it was the JPY in the Spring, and the euro in 2011. When those happen you ride that baby. The euro maybe doing it again this year or the USD maybe the one this year. If they cut QE3 some more be ready to ride the USD with multiple positions.

2. Currencies such as E/U and G/U tend to be very highly correlated. Do you take positions based on the total direction of the major currency ( Long the Euro) or do you treat each currency pair (Long E/U, E/A, E/C, etc) as an independent position?

I treat each currency individually but when the CSS speaks I listen right now the euro is on the bottom and maybe going down quite a bit more. So that is where I will look for opportunities. However, that doesnt mean every euro cross will drop, some may just range or the drop/rise maybe minimal on some pairs. So you still read the charts and go with it.

3. If you do treat each pair as an independent position, do you keep an eye on correlation?

See answer above, again the CSS or big Fundamental will tell you that story. If NZD raises its interest rate again might as well take the ride.

Glad that you have opened this thread! :good:
See answers above. Now that I seem set on my trading system, I really dont see any need or any ability to improve 10.7 with CSS reads used with 10.6 for me. As you can see others are happy to use 10.7 with their systems and that is the beauty of it. I now will look at improving my multiple position trading and see if I can optimize it. I will be looking at my favorite all time indi I used for years and that is my RWB one. That one can keep you in each individual trade. Molding that one with 10.7 greatly intrigues me.
Author:  astral77 [ Sun May 18, 2014 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  My philosophy of Trading

When I came across your thread in 2009 I knew I had come across a trader who had finally managed to discover a way of being a profitable retail forex trader. After all I have NOT known of anyone else who had published their trades in advance and was profitable. I have religiously (unashamedly) copied your trading style and have no regrets whatsoever. Moreover, IMHO your method is CRIMINAL PROOF. What I mean by this is that the criminal brokers can play all their dirty tricks as much as they like and we do not mind. NB system rules.

Kind regards
Author:  dispell [ Sun May 18, 2014 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  My philosophy of Trading

well,
probably not my place to say anything, but here goes:

I found steve's forum when I was relatively new to forex - say got my account in Dec, found forum in Jan.
However as I hate to come up with excuses, Dec to March was probably the worst time for me, being a fresh grad and desperately looking for a job. I would have loved to stay home and watch the market, but responsibilities take a bigger role in life. That plus being ripped off by a close friend who was supposed to help me open an account w/ a broker... (long story, won't go into that, but man, I've since grown and learned) So yeah, my start was a horrible one.
Like most people who signed up for trading, I was looking for a way to turn a small capital into something big - a means to an end. I put almost all I had at the time - prolly 2k USD (i know, not much to work with) and lost half of it consequently. Most from bad decisions and stoplosses, and also from following so-called tips from brokers/analysts. By the time I lost half of it which was recently, I decided to wise up, and started coming back to the forums. I remember not being able to read the CSS, but now I'm slowly learning, picking up things as I go. My priorities have shifted, once from focusing on getting rich from fx to slowly learning the market and the skills required to trade it.
I'm trading penny to dollar atm, but what I've not been able to fully let go is the SL. I've always seen it as some kind of insurance, but I'm learning to drop it. Bit by bit I've pulled my SL higher up, and I'm working on eliminating it altogether. The second thing is drawdown. I've never been comfortable seeing floating balance, but I know I must get used to it to trade effectively. Its been like 2weeks or so. Starting from half my balance - I've grown it by maybe 1% back up or so. I still lose some due to bad habits, but slowly and surely, I'll leave it behind.
And thanks to Bob, although I think he gets annoyed when wte sometimes post silly questions, he does answer them, and I'm grateful for it. TBH, since I've really started getting active here and reading threads page by page, I've come to realize this place is a goldmine. Well, thats all for now. One day, I hope to have a trading style of my own :lol: :D

Cheers!
Author:  James Roscoe [ Sun May 18, 2014 3:34 am ]
Post subject:  My philosophy of Trading

nanningbob » Sat May 17, 2014 6:13 pm wrote:
James Roscoe » Sun May 18, 2014 7:37 am wrote:"I want traders to be able to speak about their trading styles. I have had people wanting me to talk about MM and trading philosophy. I always thought about writing a book about it but I am tired or writing. So as questions and thoughts come up I will post them here."- nanningbob

Thanks for the opportunity to help you distill your thoughts, bob.

1. You trade 1-4 cents per thousand dollars, and you scale into positions. Without getting too personal, how many parts would you break a final position into?

The maximum I carry is 3, whether I am trend trading or recovery trading. In range trading very difficult to get 3 positions in. Having said that there is usually once maybe twice a year everyone knows a currency is going in one direction. The Fundamental driver is very obvious. Last year it was the JPY in the Spring, and the euro in 2011. When those happen you ride that baby. The euro maybe doing it again this year or the USD maybe the one this year. If they cut QE3 some more be ready to ride the USD with multiple positions.

2. Currencies such as E/U and G/U tend to be very highly correlated. Do you take positions based on the total direction of the major currency ( Long the Euro) or do you treat each currency pair (Long E/U, E/A, E/C, etc) as an independent position?

I treat each currency individually but when the CSS speaks I listen right now the euro is on the bottom and maybe going down quite a bit more. So that is where I will look for opportunities. However, that doesnt mean every euro cross will drop, some may just range or the drop/rise maybe minimal on some pairs. So you still read the charts and go with it.

3. If you do treat each pair as an independent position, do you keep an eye on correlation?

See answer above, again the CSS or big Fundamental will tell you that story. If NZD raises its interest rate again might as well take the ride.

Glad that you have opened this thread! :good:
See answers above. Now that I seem set on my trading system, I really dont see any need or any ability to improve 10.7 with CSS reads used with 10.6 for me. As you can see others are happy to use 10.7 with their systems and that is the beauty of it. I now will look at improving my multiple position trading and see if I can optimize it. I will be looking at my favorite all time indi I used for years and that is my RWB one. That one can keep you in each individual trade. Molding that one with 10.7 greatly intrigues me.
Thanks for response. The way I trade is that I use a simple volatility adjusted grid on the E/U and U/C, long only for each pair so that every trade is swap positive. The 10.7 concept and recovery concept is built into the grid and frankly the final tweaking of the idea came from reading your posts. It is so stress free it is boring and I spend a lot of time on forums :D

I realize that I could probably be more aggressive and the 10.6-9 tools give the chance to do that.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!
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