Criminals

[Dixpat]

I picked this up on another forum (not FF - I have posted it there as well).

I have no proof it is accurate but it does make interesting reading.

and here is an example of one of my trades and as the log clearly shows my provider changed the price I had opened the order at .
I have deleted the acct details to hide my broker . I did bring this up with them and don't believe I ever got a refund on this one but have on many other left field things .
It was only for 2 contracts so 2 bucks a point .
I often trade 5-8 bucks a point on many trades but at new highs or when really unsure I shrink size [potential loss/profit ]back to a few bucks a point .

Order was clearly to buy 2 dax on stop at 5571.25 and was opened at that price yet when I go to close I see the opening price was altered to 5575.25 . Which was about the top of that range so I wait a few seconds and close at a loss when I should of been able to close that trade at 5575 ish at a small profit .
For those who don't understand the log the order is read from top to bottom .
Pending order was to buy 2 dax on stop at 5571.75 ,
request was accepted
order was opened [long 2 dax at 5571.75 ].
order number __ - - - was opened to buy 2 dax at 5571.75
but when I WENT TO CLOSE THE ORDER and I couldn't figure out why I wasn't showing a profit but in a fast moving market and doing 20 odd trades a night I initially thought I must of done a typo on my entry price .
But as u can see when I went to close the trade it clearly shows the price which I opened at was IN FACT now 5575.75
[21:15:02 '': order #- - -- -- buy 2.00 DAX30 at 5575.25 sl: 5551.25 tp: 0.00 closed at price 5568.75]



21:14:32 '': pending order buy stop 2.00 DAX30 at 5571.75 sl: 5551.25 tp: 0.00
21:14:32 '': request was accepted by server
21:14:32 '': request in process
21:14:32 '': order was opened : #- - -- buy stop 2.00 DAX30 at 5571.75 sl: 5551.25 tp: 0.00
21:15:02 '': close order #- -- -- - - buy 2.00 DAX30 at 5575.25 sl: 5551.25 tp: 0.00 at price 5568.75
21:15:02 '': request was accepted by server
21:15:02 '': request in process
21:15:02 '': order #- - -- -- buy 2.00 DAX30 at 5575.25 sl: 5551.25 tp: 0.00 closed at price 5568.75


We call them criminals for good reason!

[AnotherBrian]

I got hooped by MF. I got all my $$ back, just under 10K. Even if they totatally screwed up, there is an investor protection fund in Canada that would have given me 100% back. Now I have to wait for the check to clear and transfer to my new broker before I can start trading again..... pain in the A S S - but I got my loot!!

[Dixpat]

You are a lucky one - I have $A26K tied up with the Australian MF company and the administrators say any "distribution" [i.e. don't expect the full amount] won't be until March/April and only then after they get some direction from the Australian courts re some legal issues!

[Dixpat]

Thanks Khalid

I don't mind losing money through my own stupid trading but when an institution such as MF Global start playing with my money which should have been in a segragated account and punt on EUR related bonds then I do start to get some red mist!

And now we have the CEO & CFO saying they have no idea why there is a $1.6B shortfall - for goodness sake, do they take us for idiots [of course they do otherwise they wouldn't have gambled with customers money]

[garyfritz]

I am fascinated and confused by these reports of nefarious criminal back-office skulduggery.

I don't *think* I have encountered anything like this. Most of my FX has been through Tradestation, where orders are filled in a tiny fraction of a second. I've never seen price spike to take out my stops, except in cases where it was confirmed on two other crims. Doubtless they pad the spread a bit to make their profit, but the result is still quite acceptable.

I'm having trouble imagining a b-roker who can actually use the techniques described in the videos above. Do they really have some trained monkey sitting on the back-office management interface, watching every order come through and looking for opportunities to screw the customer? Do they honestly muck with the reported price quotes to stop-hunt somebody's order?

I know this is the way the "dealing desks" worked in the olden days, but does anybody REALLY do this now? I would think any b-roker large enough to be a viable business would have hundreds or thousands of orders streaming in every minute. There is no way they could by-hand steal a pip here and a pip there, as the videos showed. Maybe they could automate it, but beyond padding the spread I'm not sure what they could viably do and not have it be obvious.

Obviously people believe this happens all the time, else we wouldn't be calling b-rokers "brokers." Steve wouldn't be working so hard to hide stops if he didn't think some crim was going to run them. I just haven't seen it in the b-rokers I've used, nor the ones I've seriously considered using (IB, MB Trading, Oanda).

My question is, if your bucket-shop crims are treating you like this, why in God's name do you stay there? Why not find an honest b-roker who will fill your orders to the best of their ability?

[SteveHopwood]

My question is, if your bucket-shop crims are treating you like this, why in God's name do you stay there? Why not find an honest b-roker who will fill your orders to the best of their ability?

Hmmmm. Do you know the difference between a bucket shop and a standard criminal? Your post suggests not. I suspect quite a few contributors here do not, either.

Has it occurred to you to wonder why so many reputable contributors here refer to b-rokers as criminals? I suggest you learn from them instead of doubting them. There are many forms of behaviour that will be illegal in a few years time when the sector is properly regulated that are legal now. Legal is not the same as mora/ethical.

Please stop getting around the humorous word filter that describes b_rokers as criminals. Ok, so I could play catch up and apply the filter to all the possible mixtures of b-roker that you can come up with, but I would get pissed off sooner rather than later and ban you from these boards.

Just because you use Trade Station does not mean you have all the answers, so I suggest you do a bit of learning from the real experts here.

[garyfritz]

Has it occurred to you to wonder why so many reputable contributors here refer to b-rokers as criminals? I suggest you learn from them instead of doubting them.

Steve, that's precisely what I'm trying to do. That's why I posted. I'm asking questions so I can understand what you and others obviously understand better than I do.

Please stop getting around the humorous word filter that describes b_rokers as criminals.

OK, I was just trying to distinguish between "those guys" who *I think* are operating ethically, and "those guys" who fit the term "criminals."

Just because you use Trade Station does not mean you have all the answers, so I suggest you do a bit of learning from the real experts here.

Good heavens what gave you the idea I thought I had all the answers? I'm asking questions SO I can learn from the real experts here!

My experience with Tradestation is useful in the Tradestation world. It has limited value in the Empty4 world, and I have repeatedly professed my ignorance of Empty4 specifics.

I sometimes apply that TS experience to test and verify things posted here, because I'm much more comfortable with TS than with Empty4. (And because many sources suggest Empty4's backtesting accuracy is questionable, whereas I know and trust TS's backtesting.) When it seems useful I share those results. I think it's very valuable to compare two entirely different implementations to make sure you get reasonably similar results. Otherwise your code, or your platform, or whatever might fool you. If you get the same results on two totally different platforms, you can be very confident your results are legitimate.

I'm not sharing those results or doing anything else to suggest I know everything. I'm just trying to contribute to the community. If that's not welcome, just say so.

[RockyJ]

[quote=
Just because you use Trade Station does not mean you have all the answers, so I suggest you do a bit of learning from the real experts here.

Hilarious... Relax Gary I think Steve's using a bit of that Brit humor here.

But I must say Gary does seem pretty sharp....

As for me, I am way outta my league here, all you coders running around here...

[SteveHopwood]

I'm not sharing those results or doing anything else to suggest I know everything. I'm just trying to contribute to the community. If that's not welcome, just say so.

Nope. I back off with humble apologies for being a grump. Please carry on and shoot me when I react badly and throw my weight around.

[garyfritz]

Oooh ooh oooh!! Let's all play "Shoot Steve" !! What a fun game!!!

Peace, Steve. Sorry if my posts sounded like a know-it-all smart-@$$. Wasn't my intent.