Multi 10:4 Trader EA

[Aus67]

Hi All
In the first week of demo trading both 102 and 102a traded very well for me and I have posted a screenshort of the Empty4 report. It finished up over 10% which if it continues would be incredible.
DD was there, but from the outset Bob was sayind use the 240 as the SL and sure enough the trades that were in DD would eventually move into positive territory.

Many thanks to the guys that have put this together! It is a great effort.

cheers
Daryl

104EA_wk01.JPG

[AGT]

.... demo trading both 102 and 102a ....

Hmmm: 102/102a ? .... do you mean 2.01 and 2.01a ?

[glabbeek]

I agree that all those filters seem to be needed when you look at the short term action in the currency market. The downside is that you will limit your profitability.

The last few days, due to the action in the JPY, a lot of people thought there was a need to limit the maximum number of pairs containing the same currency. Yesterday and today the winnings are coming out of the JPY. If you would have limited the amount of pairs trading JPY at the same time, you would have missed a lot of profits.

Not trading on high impact news works the same. Most of the time these news comments are in line with the trend and you make a nice profit. Two weeks ago the news was countertrend and we lost some.

Filters can work, but you will cut your winnings.

I think the EA that Andy and co. produced doesn't need any more filters at the moment. Look for the long run.

Willem

I don't disagree with your comments, but we know this EA is profitable and I'm sure Andy's innovative idea to link two EA's will solve the drawdown issue, but what i was trying to address is that people have been reporting issues with drawdown or getting taken out by stoplosses.

The biggest error most retail traders make is to keep moving a stoploss when a trade moves against them due to news that is designed to do just that...take out your stop loss. Its always that argument of cut a trade early and let your profits run, and i'm sure most traders do the opposite. I use Wyckoff principles, and its very easy to see this footprint day after day..

If you have a trade thats 100pips in profit and you know that a major announcement is coming form a central bank then you would take your profit, as you're risking 100pips vs a possible XXX pips (upside vs downside risk) more if the news goes in your favour...I personally do not use this kind of strategy as part of my 'trading plan' when trading live. You can also argue that the news is a 50/50 risk as like you say if the news goes in your favour you make more pips, but you have to be happy with the drawdown / stops hit if the news is against your open position.

The point i'm trying to make is if you can avoid drawdown, turning a winning trade into a losing trade and possible getting back in at a lower or higher price that is something that might be worth consider..

Anyway just my thoughts as i like to think as a news filter as being beneficial if used to work in your favour...and having the ability to turn a feature on/off allows the user to decide what kind or risk they want to adopt...that's the great thing about EA's

I'm sure you will agree that there's nothing worse than sitting in-front of your screen watching red pips in your live account!

Jason

One of my main concerns is that the EA that Andy's has produced will get modified to much in an early stage. Although I must say that Andy keep's everything very clean so far. I just think we need more data before adding filters.

Bob's constantly changes his approach. This is because he trades without an automatic system (EA). This way you will never know how good or bad your system is. There is to much discretion in this method. After he finds a flaw he will change his system. I think that many of his previous ideas are good enough, but got thrown away on short term losses.

Now with Andy's EA we can see what really happens if you stick to the system. So far I'm very happy with the results. Andy also reported promising results over the last 5 weeks and in the first 4 there were still a lot of bugs. Most major entry bugs seem to be resolved, so the next couple of weeks shall be very important.

The DD can be addressed in different ways, I don't like the filter system, but that is my personal opinion. If somebody has a filter to get rid of the loosing trades, then I would love to see it. So far I have only seen ideas for filters that prevent certain entries, entries for possible winning trades.

I still like to enter the market with several pairs containing the same currency. This week the EA made a lot of pips using this tactic and the filter would have cost it a lot of money.

The best solution would be an exit that would be triggered if a basket of pairs containing the same currency would go into a loss. For example:

If you would be trading long on the next 6 pairs:
EUR/AUD
EUR/USD
EUR/GBP
EUR/JPY
NZD/USD
USD/JPY

You would have 3 baskets:
1
EUR/AUD
EUR/USD
EUR/GBP
EUR/JPY
2
EUR/USD
NZD/USD
USD/JPY
3
EUR/JPY
USD/JPY

If you would only except a 2% risk on you equity, then each basket wouldn't be allowed to go below this 2%. This means for:
Basket 1 average loss of 0,5% per pair.
Basket 2 average loss of 0,67% per pair.
Basket 3 average loss of 1% per pair.

This way you will allow all pairs to achieve the maximum possible profit level, but avoid large DD.

[Aus67]

.... demo trading both 102 and 102a ....

Hmmm: 102/102a ? .... do you mean 2.01 and 2.01a ?

Haha yes that is correct...too early in the morning!

[sponn]

I just say it again... one more time and shut up later...

We will have the drawndowns. It is normal when price is breaking 240 line. I would say thet ther is two ways of dealing this.

1. limit baskets like glabbeek said. Close all corelated pairs when DD is going to high. This way we will:
1) reduce the DD but
2) reduce the profits
I would say that prfit reduction will be much higher than DD. But it is just a felling not something I have confirmed.

2. use 10.5 lines and 2-3 level orders per pair with TP on 3rd or 4th line. Then we can split entries to 1% for 10.4 lines and 1% for 10.5 lines. According to my trading and Gertjes posts in 10.4 thread we can book a lot of pips before retrace and 240 line comes.

I know MrLong that you are not a fan of changing entrys but... why don't try. I don't know how hard is to code it but could you please consider it.

Just check charts for the last 4 weeks. A lot of trades except great jpy pairs goes to second entry line and reverse before 3rd line - and hit BE. But when you change your view to 1H you will see that most of price action break 2-3 daily lines before reverse. So we can book a lot of pips even before price hit 2nd entry line for 10.4. Please just check it on charts.

Also this way the risk will be the same 2% - 1% for 10.4 entrys and 1% for 10.5. If the price move faster you will get your big revard with 10.4 entrys/exits. But I believe that 10.5 will add some breathe. It should have got the same DD (240 line is SL for both systems) but will make a lot more pips to reduce the DD.

Just my 2 cents.

[Jonathan2FI]

Just catching up still on 2.00 ..tough week at work and on the FX market started well 2% up Monday night, even the China slow down news (I believed had been managed) but ended with a switch off with DD of 5% on Wednesday. Just caught up with the last 5 pages here ...interesting and got me thinking. (apologies I have a habit of analysing and processing information going back to basics and then reiterating what I think is important.
1. To compare results we will need to be clear on settings especially where pairs are selected excluded - plus broker...and of course discretionary intervention.
2. This Strategy is a trend strategy based on 240 lwma with a smart efficient entry based on RSI & AO to capture the pull backs and pivots reflecting key entry points S&R.
3. Losses occur when entry close to 240 and subsequently crosses 240 and or market reverses. GBPNZD losses on Tuesday occurred middle of the night. I would have not excluded this pair given the strong TL it was following - However it took 1.5% off me
Exits on change of AO colour would have helped! Have I missed a setting?
4. Drawdown filters on EAs that have proven cyclical equity curve behaviour do and can help ...even simple rule if drawdown half lot size until next win and then restore lot size. I think Andy is following a more sophisticated filter to support early exit. As per many of us on this forum pain barrier at or below 10% DD on live...and I believe there are also many on this forum who for various reasons can only make detailed intervention on this ea first thing in the morning and in the evening ...where ever they are. So look forward to belt and braces on DD
Thanks
Jonathan

[MrLong]

I agree that all those filters seem to be needed when you look at the short term action in the currency market. The downside is that you will limit your profitability.

The last few days, due to the action in the JPY, a lot of people thought there was a need to limit the maximum number of pairs containing the same currency. Yesterday and today the winnings are coming out of the JPY. If you would have limited the amount of pairs trading JPY at the same time, you would have missed a lot of profits.

Not trading on high impact news works the same. Most of the time these news comments are in line with the trend and you make a nice profit. Two weeks ago the news was countertrend and we lost some.

Filters can work, but you will cut your winnings.

I think the EA that Andy and co. produced doesn't need any more filters at the moment. Look for the long run.

Willem

I don't disagree with your comments, but we know this EA is profitable and I'm sure Andy's innovative idea to link two EA's will solve the drawdown issue, but what i was trying to address is that people have been reporting issues with drawdown or getting taken out by stoplosses.

The biggest error most retail traders make is to keep moving a stoploss when a trade moves against them due to news that is designed to do just that...take out your stop loss. Its always that argument of cut a trade early and let your profits run, and i'm sure most traders do the opposite. I use Wyckoff principles, and its very easy to see this footprint day after day..

If you have a trade thats 100pips in profit and you know that a major announcement is coming form a central bank then you would take your profit, as you're risking 100pips vs a possible XXX pips (upside vs downside risk) more if the news goes in your favour...I personally do not use this kind of strategy as part of my 'trading plan' when trading live. You can also argue that the news is a 50/50 risk as like you say if the news goes in your favour you make more pips, but you have to be happy with the drawdown / stops hit if the news is against your open position.

The point i'm trying to make is if you can avoid drawdown, turning a winning trade into a losing trade and possible getting back in at a lower or higher price that is something that might be worth consider..

Anyway just my thoughts as i like to think as a news filter as being beneficial if used to work in your favour...and having the ability to turn a feature on/off allows the user to decide what kind or risk they want to adopt...that's the great thing about EA's

I'm sure you will agree that there's nothing worse than sitting in-front of your screen watching red pips in your live account!

Jason

One of my main concerns is that the EA that Andy's has produced will get modified to much in an early stage. Although I must say that Andy keep's everything very clean so far. I just think we need more data before adding filters.

Bob's constantly changes his approach. This is because he trades without an automatic system (EA). This way you will never know how good or bad your system is. There is to much discretion in this method. After he finds a flaw he will change his system. I think that many of his previous ideas are good enough, but got thrown away on short term losses.

Now with Andy's EA we can see what really happens if you stick to the system. So far I'm very happy with the results. Andy also reported promising results over the last 5 weeks and in the first 4 there were still a lot of bugs. Most major entry bugs seem to be resolved, so the next couple of weeks shall be very important.

The DD can be addressed in different ways, I don't like the filter system, but that is my personal opinion. If somebody has a filter to get rid of the loosing trades, then I would love to see it. So far I have only seen ideas for filters that prevent certain entries, entries for possible winning trades.

I still like to enter the market with several pairs containing the same currency. This week the EA made a lot of pips using this tactic and the filter would have cost it a lot of money.

The best solution would be an exit that would be triggered if a basket of pairs containing the same currency would go into a loss. For example:

If you would be trading long on the next 6 pairs:
EUR/AUD
EUR/USD
EUR/GBP
EUR/JPY
NZD/USD
USD/JPY

You would have 3 baskets:
1
EUR/AUD
EUR/USD
EUR/GBP
EUR/JPY
2
EUR/USD
NZD/USD
USD/JPY
3
EUR/JPY
USD/JPY

If you would only except a 2% risk on you equity, then each basket wouldn't be allowed to go below this 2%. This means for:
Basket 1 average loss of 0,5% per pair.
Basket 2 average loss of 0,67% per pair.
Basket 3 average loss of 1% per pair.

This way you will allow all pairs to achieve the maximum possible profit level, but avoid large DD.

Yes, a good idea would be to top exposure on a currency and if we get drawdown of 2% close the trades, optional.

I intend to test the 2 EA system next week and if all looks good, I'll add it all into 1 EA, like virtual entries, calculate where we would be with drawdown, then enter when drawdown is at a user defined setting.

if won't stop drawdown but it will reduce it.

Andy

[slipshod]

Hi Andy, I was wondering if you could explain how these extra trades work a little more? For instance, just say I'd gone long on AUDUSD and it went into unacceptable DD triggering the virtual trades. Would those trades then be more longs from a lower level, or shorts? How would they differ in their entry logic from the normal 10.4 rules used by the "normal" EA? Sorry if its all been explained previously...

[MrLong]

Hi Andy, I was wondering if you could explain how these extra trades work a little more? For instance, just say I'd gone long on AUDUSD and it went into unacceptable DD triggering the virtual trades. Would those trades then be more longs from a lower level, or shorts? How would they differ in their entry logic from the normal 10.4 rules used by the "normal" EA? Sorry if its all been explained previously...

Hi slipshod,

I was looking more on a basket basis, over the last 5 weeks we have seen most of our baskets drawdown before going into profit, so the test I'm doing now is to have the normal EA run and take the normal trades, I have modified another version to wait until the basket of the first EA goes into drawdown, we could also look at specific pairs also, the list of pairs will be duplicated on the 2nd EA and at a given drawdown, say 5-6% enter the same trades - drawdown.

We will miss the trades that go straight into profit.

It may not work, but it's worth a try.

Andy

[Anonymous]

Hi MrLong,

Many thanks for the new version.

I can see that many others are running the new version. I am quite puzzled why each time I load the ea, the Empty4 terminal just shuts itself straight away. No problem with previous versions.

I have loaded the ea, dll and mqh files as instructed on page one. Tried downloading the ea, dll and mqh files again today, same results.

I have tried to load it on demos for Alpari, Cowboy IBFX, FXCM -- with the same results. Empty4 Build 482.

My laptop is running windows vista home. Is it a windows problem ?

It is very odd.

I am still running v2.00 on demo with variable results

peter