scanner wrote:
1) DATA Source:
- does exit a data source that would be avalaible for years ? or do we have to prepar a multiple possible source of data field to be collected before treatment?
I am using http://histdata.com. I paid for the 15 days full access, and sucked down all 36GB of tick data, and now have a tool that can download the monthly updates. There are some issues with the data, such as spike, but it can be cleaned. It seems to be accurate enough, but, really, compared to what?
Another one is http://ratedata.gaincapital.com/ which is denegrated in some places, but visually it looks not too bad compared with histdata.com. Again, I don't have an absolute reference to compare it to.
histdata.com is 36GB for tick data back to 2000 (it's growing year by year - 2012 data alone is 9.3GB). AFAICT there are no copyright restrictions on this, so I don't have a problem sharing the data. Perhaps by torrent, if there is enough interest.
scanner wrote:You know, leaving in Tahiti, I'm going to bath myself all this week.. not going to the sea during this year and my tears will not be visible in the sea.
Well one consolidation is once you have all the logic figured out yes it's a lot of work to reprogram it into another language but it'll take considerable less time..
In fact if it's that good I'll help you with it.. if you let me examine it and decide to use it
I would agree - developing a good strategy is 70-80% of the problem - porting to another platform should be far easier now
zalezny wrote:If Steve will agree, I suggest to open separate thread for this subject.
It would be great to put all Empty4/MT5 substitutes technologies with all features on one table. Then it will be easy to compare.
Who knows maybe this discussion born some new Open Source Project. - I hope
I do indeed agree, but hang on until tomorrow.
All this calls for a new sub-forum in the coders hangout forum; I shall set this up in the morning. I will send around a heads-up to let you guys know it is up and running.
Read the effing manual, ok?
Afterprime is the official SHF broker. Read about them at https://www.stevehopwoodforex.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=175790#p175790.
I still suffer from OCCD. Good thing, really.
Anyone here feeling generous? My paypal account is always in the market for a tiny donation. pianodoodler@hotmail.com is the account.
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My special thanks to Thomas (tomele) for all the incredible work he does here.
Not sure if this is the right forum, but maybe I can help a bit regarding cTrader.
I did perform an in-depth analysis on cTrader and found it not to meet the needs for our global prop group traders nor even for my own needs as a professional trader. I have reviewed the potential for business practices and revenue modeling also.
The most important aspect of the software is that cTrader is simply a trade execution platform with charts, built around the C# programming code. The actual spreads, trade execution, quotes, and clearing operations will vary based on which Liquidity Provider (LP) is selected for operations.
Regarding the costs, here is what I received for costing analysis: Keep in mind this outline is from a business perspective.
As per Spotware, the ONLY setup requirement is to have a LP with a FIX API and $1,000 (one time only) Integration fee. There may be costs incurred by the LP for integration, but these are charged by the LP only.
According to Spotware, full integration to be 100% operational is about 2 weeks depending on integration and branding.
Important: The actual clearing costs of the LP/Bank will be what determines the final costs, not cTrader.
cTrader charges a monthly fee minimum, with final monthly fee based on monthly round turn trade volume.
To offer all the services available, or to at least make them available, the monthly minimum cTrader fees will be $7,000 USD, with a base minimum of $3,000.00 USD.
Monthly volume charges will range from $1.00 per million (based on 40+ bio) to $5.00 usd per million (0-10 bio).
Since the initial operations will require some time to generate volume, it would be expected that actual costs for the first 6-9 months would be $5.00 per million.
This would not include LP clearing costs. Thus, even if connecting to a LP who offers clearing services for .2 to .5 of the spread, this puts costs at the 0.70 to 1.00 pip per 100K
(Based on 1 pip =$10.00) or $7.00 to $10.00 per million.
If, over time, volume increased to 30 bio, then costs would typically move down to .3 cTrader and .2 LP, clearing costs will still be around 0.5 pip per 100K.
In comparison, the ONLY primary reason to adopt any platform, business resource, change business direction would be for the potential of a substantial increase in revenue.
For many reason, too many to post here, we chose NOT to use cTrader. cBroker allows for an aggregate of net equity to be constantly displayed showing Broker's risk. When risk parameters are met, Broker can run the position, or decide to offset. Didn't like the ability for crims to manipulate trades via the a/b book among other reasons, nor the incompatibility to Empty4. We discovered a long list of reasons against ctrader and have chosen not to use it. One big issue we found was a data stall, particularly on Yen pairs. The yen pairs particularly seem to jump a lot. I cannot monitor spreads on cTrader as I can with Empty4.
We use a combination of FSB and FST connected to Empty4 account. This works great for my algo's. I collect the tick data from my broker and run through FSB for strategy work.
Hope this can help.
"Make Your 20, Bank Your Money... WFY II" My Mission: Help families grow income, protect assets, erase debt, and gain financial independence.[/b]
idempotent wrote:
histdata.com is 36GB for tick data back to 2000 (it's growing year by year - 2012 data alone is 9.3GB). AFAICT there are no copyright restrictions on this, so I don't have a problem sharing the data. Perhaps by torrent, if there is enough interest.
As my work is based only on price's action, I don't need more than one quater or year history eventually, just to get the base of the paramaters and not to obtain "SurOptimizing" picture.
The problem is to be able to be sure to get permanently the same live forex data source structure during trading to not have to redo again !.
Talking about general rules to admit before to decide what language to use in fact.
Not sure if this is the right forum, but maybe I can help a bit regarding cTrader.
I did perform an in-depth analysis on cTrader and found it not to meet the needs for our global prop group traders nor even for my own needs as a professional trader. I have reviewed the potential for business practices and revenue modeling also.
The most important aspect of the software is that cTrader is simply a trade execution platform with charts, built around the C# programming code. The actual spreads, trade execution, quotes, and clearing operations will vary based on which Liquidity Provider (LP) is selected for operations.
Regarding the costs, here is what I received for costing analysis: Keep in mind this outline is from a business perspective.
As per Spotware, the ONLY setup requirement is to have a LP with a FIX API and $1,000 (one time only) Integration fee. There may be costs incurred by the LP for integration, but these are charged by the LP only.
According to Spotware, full integration to be 100% operational is about 2 weeks depending on integration and branding.
Important: The actual clearing costs of the LP/Bank will be what determines the final costs, not cTrader.
cTrader charges a monthly fee minimum, with final monthly fee based on monthly round turn trade volume.
To offer all the services available, or to at least make them available, the monthly minimum cTrader fees will be $7,000 USD, with a base minimum of $3,000.00 USD.
Monthly volume charges will range from $1.00 per million (based on 40+ bio) to $5.00 usd per million (0-10 bio).
Since the initial operations will require some time to generate volume, it would be expected that actual costs for the first 6-9 months would be $5.00 per million.
This would not include LP clearing costs. Thus, even if connecting to a LP who offers clearing services for .2 to .5 of the spread, this puts costs at the 0.70 to 1.00 pip per 100K
(Based on 1 pip =$10.00) or $7.00 to $10.00 per million.
If, over time, volume increased to 30 bio, then costs would typically move down to .3 cTrader and .2 LP, clearing costs will still be around 0.5 pip per 100K.
In comparison, the ONLY primary reason to adopt any platform, business resource, change business direction would be for the potential of a substantial increase in revenue.
For many reason, too many to post here, we chose NOT to use cTrader. cBroker allows for an aggregate of net equity to be constantly displayed showing Broker's risk. When risk parameters are met, Broker can run the position, or decide to offset. Didn't like the ability for crims to manipulate trades via the a/b book among other reasons, nor the incompatibility to Empty4. We discovered a long list of reasons against ctrader and have chosen not to use it. One big issue we found was a data stall, particularly on Yen pairs. The yen pairs particularly seem to jump a lot. I cannot monitor spreads on cTrader as I can with Empty4.
We use a combination of FSB and FST connected to Empty4 account. This works great for my algo's. I collect the tick data from my broker and run through FSB for strategy work.
Hope this can help.
Amazing post thank you so much for writing this out and I agree on all points. Did you end up finding any another Empty4 alternative that is worth looking into?
Regards,
Jeremy
Please note I am no longer affiliated with Global Prime. I've moved on to my next adventure with Afterprime.
boldtrader wrote:We use a combination of FSB and FST connected to Empty4 account. This works great for my algo's. I collect the tick data from my broker and run through FSB for strategy work.
Thanks for the great post. What are FSB and FST?
Edit: should have googled first. It's Forex Strategy Builder|Trader
Jemook and Idempotent, thank you for your comments. I hope that my info and comments will be of great help to members here.
Here are some additional issues I found with cTrader: CTRADER DOES NOT HAVE A BRIDGE TO CONNECT TO Empty4. THIS MUST COME FROM THE LQ / QUOTE PROVIDER. cTrader does allow for the bridge to connect to their server, which is the cServer to Empty4 bridge mentioned in their data sheet.
Risk Manager - cBroker module
- The only risk manager is built around the cBroker Group module. This limits the controls as compared to the module built by ATCBrokers.
- Group assignment options: All of this is available in Empty4 both via Empty4 Broker Admin and custom module built by Empty4 Broker.
- Stop out level in %
- Ticket size - minimum and maximum
- Commissions per million traded
- Book Assignment (not available on current Empty4 provider) since all trades are passed through to LP.
OVERALL: I SEE NO ADVANTAGE TO RISK MANAGEMENT USING CBROKER OTHER THAN YOU HAVE DIRECT ACCESS TO THE PLATFORM. CURRENT Empty4 BROKER HAS DEVELOPED A CUSTOM APPLICATION FOR CLIENT TO USE.
- New accounts created within the cBroker do not provide for ability to setup commissions, fees, charges. This is done via group assignment..
- There is a built-in cAlgo program which can create custom code / auto trader, but code experience is required. This is a big negative for most traders.
- Empty4 has a built-in Tick Chart both on the Symbols list and on the Order Entry window. Tick charts data or functions is not available on cTrader (or at least I did not see the options anywhere).
- Delays in changing chart period. I created a chart, placing normal multiple trend lines and a standard RSI indicator on the chart. When changing that chart to a different time period, there was a substantial delay. When doing the same with Empty4, the change is instant. If speed trading, and needing to make a quick decision, this could be a point of frustration for the trader.
- Can not multi-leg trades. This feature is available via Advanced Order Entry Script of current Empty4 provider.
- Order inconsistency and slippage:
example: I executed a Buystop on EURJPY at 124.762 per order entry window. History Log shows entry price at 124.769, Position windows shows entry price at 124.757. I also noticed slippage on EURJPY limit orders as much as .6 pips. I did not have slippage on EURUSD Limit orders.
- Spreads, cTrader via their default quote provider has a slightly higher spread than current Empty4 provider on EURUSD. Obviously this will vary depending on the quotation/LP provider, with a potential to reduce spread down to 0.2 to 0.4 on EURUSD. Given the potential of any major LP to accept a potential offering from us to use for our global prop groups, the cost of product is higher than current offering.
- Empty4 has built in ability to receive and connect to signal provider / system via current Empty4 provider. cTrader does not have same capabilities. This would need to be done via special written code and/or LP bridge / Empty4 connectivity.
- Empty4 has built-in ability to publish signals / charts. cTrader only has ability to send email notifications.
In terms of functionality comparing current Empty4 provider's version of Empty4 vs' cTrader, Empty4 has more functionality for mirroring, receiving / pushing signals.
cTrader Features Advantages:
- Shows well, with obvious bells/whistles/color
- Dome Trading, not available on Empty4
- Built-in snapshot of charts which is uploaded to the web. We use this feature with a different program on Empty4 & Jing (provided by Techsmith) combined. ADDITIONALLY, Empty4 CAN UPLOAD TO SERVER, AND PUBLISH CHARTS TO SPECIFIC FTP LOCATION. CTRADER DOES NOT HAVE THIS ABILITY.
- Windows can be popped out of the Shell program. This can be done with Empty4 but requires a special script.
Disadvantages:
- Lose of control of data feed and spreads. We do not know the feed provider.
- Support services. We do not know the company or how responsive they are to technical issues. cTrader will provide support and technical services for the software. There will also need to be tech support for the LP connection.
- Heavier on processor: Using our system configurations, cTrader requires more memory than Empty4. The initial setup gave me a WINNAPP Error, requiring me to re-download the platform. I am running win7 for this test. AMD Phenom IIx4 3.20 GHz, 64 bit Operating System, with Service Pack 1. System has 4.00 Gig memory. We chose this system/configuration, having a bit of age, as most traders around the world may not be able to have the latest and greatest in processing power or capabilities.
There is more... but I think you get the picture. I did send a full write-up of this analysis to Steve for review. If he approves, I will be happy to post a link to the 8 page pdf of the writeup we used for business analysis.
Alternatives:
For myself and our program purposes, the primary focus was 1)ability to have proper back testing with true accountability and reliability; 2) ability for platform to be deployed to large groups under a proprietary system for prop traders, 3) ability to deploy quickly with minimal learning curve. Our experience had to be geared to new traders with limited or zero experience who could be trading within 3-5 weeks on a system with minimal market experience requirements. Deployment required DLL security with permissioned dbase on redundant servers for backup. Running in C# or C++ meets our needs.
The secondary aspect that was most important was obviously the data feed and support provider. I tested and reviewed the major providers of data vs costs vs support vs platform vs latency, and several other criteria.
After making our selection, the only final requirement was to find an open source application to meet our needs for backtesting and execution. FSB and FST meets our criteria, and is scalable to 1000's of global prop traders. Once FST is connected to Empty4, the signals can be opted in by traders, or can be sent via Empty4 provider's back-office trade copier application or can be connected to external server used for trade copier application. In our case, the Empty4 provider built a custom application for trade management for monitoring large groups of traders.
Instead of building a new wheel, at least at this time, we decided to make a current wheel more efficient. I am aware of a new FOREX platform being built which uses the FIX API provided by my current Empty4 provider. One thing to note, when selecting my Empty4 provider, I did so based on a few criteria which I have written about here in other forums. Of particular interest was the ability for me to contact the owner directly; skype support; email support; no modules on Empty4 server; narrow spreads; no markup; and other criteria. Once the provider was selected, then the ability to back test the data was next and then execution. Regarding execution, servers and pipeline became most important with clearing server to be near quote server and pipeline had to be able to handle 50,000 transactions per second, burstable. We didn't want to see trade execution errors whereby simultaneous executions would fail due to server issues.
Additional advantages included the ability to trade on a true Market Data Feed (WYSIWYG) and having a demo feed with quotes the same as live feed quotes. Having both the same makes backtesting more reliable. When both are the same, the primary concern becomes any slippage which may occur and that can be accounted for within the FSB/FST currency market charges.
While the above configuration and criteria may not be for everyone, it is rather easily deployed and greatly facilitates the ability perform reliable testing. Additionally, from a group standpoint, one the configuration was set up, it is easy to add traders onto the system.
Best regards,
"Make Your 20, Bank Your Money... WFY II" My Mission: Help families grow income, protect assets, erase debt, and gain financial independence.[/b]
