The purpose of this sub-forum

[Jemook]

I'm watching all of this with great interest. The biggest point I want to make is a move away from Empty4 must come from the ground up and by that I mean clients adopting new platforms.

As a trader I personally really enjoy working with Empty4 - it has it's quibbles but I can deal with them. The way Metaquotes is run is a different story.

As a broker I have sent an email to CTrader to find out about costs and implementation. Hopefully they've made it easy for brokers to adopt and we can start testing the sucker out.

We can connect new platforms through FIX API but it generally requires quite a large minimum deposit to get going with the LPs.

Anyway I'm totally open to suggestions but this needs to be thought about properly before action is taken from our side.

Will keep you guys posted about CTrader and continue monitoring the conversation

Cheers,
J

[ToeCutter]

Should we not start at industry standard and work our way down , i was thinking starting with any platform that has API, FIX protocol , and is with a regulated ECN broker or the likes of Marex Spectron
That way we wouldn't be caught in a platform trap in the future.

Jforex - has all of this, and is JAVA based. From what I've read in this thread, as well as Steve's previous messages about the Metaquotes folks, I think it might be time for me to have a serious crack at learning coding for this. I have always thought jforex might be something I'd love to learn more about. Perhaps some of you can wrap your head around it easier than I. I've always been looking for redundancy from Empty4.

There is a free Empty4 code conversion tool: http://www.dukascopy.com/swiss/english/ ... converter/

as well as a bridge to Empty4: http://www.dukascopy.com/swiss/english/ ... ex_bridge/

Yes, I am a client of Dukascopy (ECN), but have only very limited use of these tools.

One weakness I see is the Dukascopy 14 day demo expiry, although I have extended indefinitely on occasion - just not sure if this was because I was a client or not. That being said, I think the development environment is stand alone and non-expiring - I think... Of course, Dukascopy is not the only broker using jforex.

They say you can become a programmer "in 30 minutes" with their tutorial: http://www.dukascopy.com/wiki/#Visual_JForex

I am also aware of this, although I don't understand it fully: http://dukascopy-Empty4.fairtradingtech.com/

Just thought I'd throw this into the mix as it seems to be what you're looking for. I have tried the code conversion tools, but they can be buggy (for me - in the older versions), and require a coder to make little changes here and there to the output, as I understand it. As I'm not a coder in any way, I have had varied success with the tool. That being said, I have heard that many are using the conversion tools just fine. Worth a look anyway.

Standard chart options include: Customizable P&F, Pip, Tick, Tick Bars, Renko, Range, nSeconds/Minutes/Hours/Days/Weeks/Months. You can undock and pin charts. You can use chart templates and themes. There's all the usual drawing tools and a couple of handy widgets built in. This could be the end of offline charts. I use the undocking to move the charts around multiple monitors etc..

Has backtester / optimizer, historical data manager, Price Alerts etc..

.... and we all know about the Dukascopy data that can be used for backtesting. Apparently one of the best data sets available.

Here's a page with what looks like pretty good info on the platform and it's coding: http://www.dukascopy.com/wiki/#Create_a_strategy

As for the vanilla platform, there are a vast amount of "standard" indicators available, and - again anecdotally - some folks can really make this this sing with a bit of coding knowledge.

Bill Williams:
AC - Accelerator/Decelerator Oscillator
ALLIGATOR - Alligator
AWESOME - Awesome Oscillator
BWMFI - Market Facilitation Index
FRACTAL - Fractal indicator
GATOR - Gator Oscillator

Cycle Indicators:
HT_DCPERIOD - Hilbert Transform - Dominant Cycle Period
HT_DCPHASE - Hilbert Transform - Dominant Cycle Phase
HT_PHASOR - Hilbert Transform - Phasor Components
HT_SINE - Hilbert Transform - SineWave
HT_TRENDMODE - Hilbert Transform - Trend vs Cycle Mode

Math Operators:
ADD - Vector Arithmetic Add
DIV - Vector Arithmetic Div
MAX - Highest value over a specified period
MIN - Lowest value over a specified period
MINMAX - Lowest and highest values over a specified period
MULT - Vector Arithmetic Mult
SUB - Vector Arithmetic Substraction
SUM - Summation

Math Transform:
ACOS - Vector Trigonometric ACos
ASIN - Vector Trigonometric ASin
ATAN - Vector Trigonometric ATan
CEIL - Vector Ceil
COS - Vector Trigonometric Cos
COSH - Vector Trigonometric Cosh
EXP - Vector Arithmetic Exp
FLOOR - Vector Floor
LN - Vector Log Natural
LOG10 - Vector Log10
SIN - Vector Trigonometric Sin
SINH - Vector Trigonometric Sinh
SQRT - Vector Square Root
TAN - Vector Trigonometric Tan
TANH - Vector Trigonometric Tanh

Momentum Indicators:
ADX - Average Directional Movement Index
ADXR - Average Directional Movement Index Rating
APO - Absolute Price Oscillator
AROON - Aroon
AROONOSC - Aroon Oscillator
BEARP - Bear Power
BOP - Balance Of Power
BULLP - Bull Power
CCI - Commodity Channel Index
CMO - Chande Momentum Oscillator
DMI - Average Directional Movement Index
DX - Directional Movement Index
FORCEI - Force Index
KAIRI - Kairi
KDJ - Random Index
LAGACS1 - Laguerre-ACS1
MACD - Moving Average Convergence/Divergence
MACDEXT - MACD with controllable MA type
MACDFIX - Moving Average Convergence/Divergence Fix 12/26
MFI - Money Flow Index
MINUS_DI - Minus Directional Indicator
MINUS_DM - Minus Directional Movement
MOM - Momentum
MURRCH - Murrey Channels
OSMA - Moving Average of Oscillator
PERSBBANDS - Percent Bollinger Bands
PLUS_DI - Plus Directional Indicator
PLUS_DM - Plus Directional Movement
PPO - Percentage Price Oscillator
RMI - Relative Momentum Index
ROC - Rate of change : ((price/prevPrice)-1)*100
ROCP - Rate of change Percentage: (price-prevPrice)/prevPrice
ROCR - Rate of change ratio: (price/prevPrice)
ROCR100 - Rate of change ratio 100 scale: (price/prevPrice)*100
RSI - Relative Strength Index
RVI - Relative Vigor Index
SMI - Stochastic Momentum Index
STOCH - Stochastic
STOCHF - Stochastic Fast
STOCHRSI - Stochastic Relative Strength Index
TD_I - Tom DeMark Indicator
TRIX - 1-day Rate-Of-Change (ROC) of a Triple Smooth EMA
ULTOSC - Ultimate Oscillator
WILLR - Williams' %R

Overlap Studies:
BBANDS - Bollinger Bands
BUTTERWORTH - Butterworth Filter
CAMPIVOT - Camarilla Pivots
DEMA - Double Exponential Moving Average
EMA - Exponential Moving Average
EMAENVELOPE - EMA Envelope
FIBPIVOT - Fibonacci Pivot
HMA - Hull Moving Average
HT_TRENDLINE - Hilbert Transform - Instantaneous Trendline
ICHIMOKU - Ichimoku
KAMA - Kaufman Adaptive Moving Average
KELTNER - Keltner Channel
LWMA - Linear Weighted Moving Average (LWMA)
MA - Moving average
MAENVELOPE - MA Envelope
MAMA - MESA Adaptive Moving Average
MAVP - Moving average with variable period
MIDPOINT - MidPoint over period
MIDPRICE - Midpoint Price over period
PCHANNEL - Price Channel
PIVOT - Pivot
SAR - Parabolic SAR
SAREXT - Parabolic SAR - Extended
SMA - Simple Moving Average
SMMA - Smoothed Moving Average (SMMA)
T3 - Triple Exponential Moving Average (T3)
TD_S - TD Sequential
TEMA - Triple Exponential Moving Average
TRENDENVELOPES - Trend Envelope
TRIMA - Triangular Moving Average
VOLUMEWAP - Volume Weighted Average Price
WMA - Weighted Moving Average
WOODPIVOT - Woodie Pivot

Pattern Recognition:
ASC_TRIANGLE - Ascending Triangle Pattern
CDL2CROWS - Two Crows
CDL3BLACKCROWS - Three Black Crows
CDL3INSIDE - Three Inside Up/Down
CDL3LINESTRIKE - Three-Line Strike
CDL3OUTSIDE - Three Outside Up/Down
CDL3STARSINSOUTH - Three Stars In The South
CDL3WHITESOLDIERS - Three Advancing White Soldiers
CDLABANDONEDBABY - Abandoned Baby
CDLADVANCEBLOCK - Advance Block
CDLBELTHOLD - Belt-hold
CDLBREAKAWAY - Breakaway
CDLCLOSINGMARUBOZU - Closing Marubozu
CDLCONCEALBABYSWALL - Concealing Baby Swallow
CDLCOUNTERATTACK - Counterattack
CDLDARKCLOUDCOVER - Dark Cloud Cover
CDLDOJI - Doji
CDLDOJISTAR - Doji Star
CDLDRAGONFLYDOJI - Dragonfly Doji
CDLENGULFING - Engulfing Pattern
CDLEVENINGDOJISTAR - Evening Doji Star
CDLEVENINGSTAR - Evening Star
CDLGAPSIDESIDEWHITE - Up/Down-gap side-by-side white lines
CDLGRAVESTONEDOJI - Gravestone Doji
CDLHAMMER - Hammer
CDLHANGINGMAN - Hanging Man
CDLHARAMI - Harami Pattern
CDLHARAMICROSS - Harami Cross Pattern
CDLHIGHWAVE - High-Wave Candle
CDLHIKKAKE - Hikkake Pattern
CDLHIKKAKEMOD - Modified Hikkake Pattern
CDLHOMINGPIGEON - Homing Pigeon
CDLIDENTICAL3CROWS - Identical Three Crows
CDLINNECK - In-Neck Pattern
CDLINVERTEDHAMMER - Inverted Hammer
CDLKICKING - Kicking
CDLKICKINGBYLENGTH - Kicking - bull/bear determined by the longer marubozu
CDLLADDERBOTTOM - Ladder Bottom
CDLLONGLEGGEDDOJI - Long Legged Doji
CDLLONGLINE - Long Line Candle
CDLMARUBOZU - Marubozu
CDLMATCHINGLOW - Matching Low
CDLMATHOLD - Mat Hold
CDLMORNINGDOJISTAR - Morning Doji Star
CDLMORNINGSTAR - Morning Star
CDLONNECK - On-Neck Pattern
CDLPIERCING - Piercing Pattern
CDLRICKSHAWMAN - Rickshaw Man
CDLRISEFALL3METHODS - Rising/Falling Three Methods
CDLSEPARATINGLINES - Separating Lines
CDLSHOOTINGSTAR - Shooting Star
CDLSHORTLINE - Short Line Candle
CDLSPINNINGTOP - Spinning Top
CDLSTALLEDPATTERN - Stalled Pattern
CDLSTICKSANDWICH - Stick Sandwich
CDLTAKURI - Takuri (Dragonfly Doji with very long lower shadow)
CDLTASUKIGAP - Tasuki Gap
CDLTHRUSTING - Thrusting Pattern
CDLTRISTAR - Tristar Pattern
CDLUNIQUE3RIVER - Unique 3 River
CDLUPSIDEGAP2CROWS - Upside Gap Two Crows
CDLXSIDEGAP3METHODS - Upside/Downside Gap Three Methods
CHANNEL_DOWN - Channel Down Pattern
CHANNEL_UP - Channel Up Pattern
DESC_TRIANGLE - Descending Triangle Pattern
DOUBLE_BOTTOM - Double Bottom Pattern
DOUBLE_TOP - Double Top Pattern
FALLING_WEDGE - Falling Wedge Pattern
HEAD&SHLDRS - Head and Shoulders Pattern
INVERSE_HEAD&SHLDRS - Inverse Head and Shoulders Pattern
INVERSE_RECT - Inverse Rectangle Pattern
PENNANT - Pennant Pattern
RECTANGLE - Rectangle Pattern
RISING_WEDGE - Rising Wedge Pattern
THRUSTBAR - Thrust Bar
THRUSTOUTSIDEBAR - Thrust Outside Bar
TRIANGLE - Triangle Pattern
TRIPLE_BOTTOM - Triple Bottom Pattern
TRIPLE_TOP - Triple Top Pattern

Price Transform:
AVGPRICE - Average Price
MEDPRICE - Median Price
TYPPRICE - Typical Price
WCLPRICE - Weighted Close Price

Statistic Functions:
BETA - Beta
CORREL - Pearson's Correlation Coefficient (r)
LINEARREG - Linear Regression
LINEARREG_ANGLE - Linear Regression Angle
LINEARREG_INTERCEPT - Linear Regression Intercept
LINEARREG_SLOPE - Linear Regression Slope
STDDEV - Standard Deviation
TSF - Time Series Forecast
VAR - Variance

Volatility Indicators:
ATR - Average True Range
DONCHIANCHANNEL - Donchian Channel
NATR - Normalized Average True Range
TRANGE - True Range

Volume Indicators:
AD - Chaikin A/D Line
ADOSC - Chaikin A/D Oscillator
OBV - On Balance Volume
TVS - Time Segmented Volume
VOLUME - Volumes
VOLUMEEXT - Volume indicator with customizable drawing style




Anyway, I'm not pointing anyone in the direction of Dukascopy, just towards the Jforex platform itself. The links from Dukas above are there because they are the places I'm familiar with and can find information on the platform. I have zero affiliation with Dukascopy.

Cheers,

Matt

[Pedro2]

At the moment the only platform I am aware of that supports MQL4 code outside of Empty4 is Pro Trader from PT Soft.
http://pfsoft.com
I note they also support C# for more serious efforts or if you prefer the object programing model to procedural...

I wonder if Jem has heard anything on this one from the brokers point of view?

When you say that Pro Trader from PT Soft supports MQL4 code. Does this mean that the indicators and EA's and scripts we use in Empty4 will run in Pro Trader? Or do they have to be modified? It seems to support back testing, demo accounts etc judging by PT Soft video on it. Has anyone any experience with Pro Trader? Looking forward to some comments. Pedro2

[ianj]

Jforex - has all of this, and is JAVA based. From what I've read in this thread, as well as Steve's
........
As for the vanilla platform, there are a vast amount of "standard" indicators available, and - again anecdotally - some folks can really make this this sing with a bit of coding knowledge.

Bill Williams:
AC - Accelerator/Decelerator Oscillator

At least some, maybe all of the indicators come from the TA-lib package with implemenations in Java/C - i use it in my own backtester - http://www.ta-lib.org/

[ianj]

Jforex - has all of this, and is JAVA based. From what I've read in this thread, as well as Steve's previous messages about the Metaquotes folks, I think it might be time for me to have a serious crack at learning coding for this. I have always thought jforex might be something I'd love to learn more about. Perhaps some of you can wrap your head around it easier than I. I've always been looking for redundancy from Empty4.

The main problem with JForex is that it is chained to a single broker - Dukascopy. I looked (a year or so ago i must admit) at modifying the JForex libraries to plug in an external feed and trading but its certainly not documented and that part of the code has been intentionally obfuscated - they dont want you to use JForex for anything other than Dukascopy - which is hardly open

Dukascopy is viable as a target platform - as one of several - but that does not mean implementing in JForex but perhaps writing an adaptor TO JForex.

The same could be said of cAlgo/cTrader - as an alternate target platform

[ToeCutter]

The main problem with JForex is that it is chained to a single broker - Dukascopy. I looked (a year or so ago i must admit) at modifying the JForex libraries to plug in an external feed and trading but its certainly not documented and that part of the code has been intentionally obfuscated - they dont want you to use JForex for anything other than Dukascopy - which is hardly open

Dukascopy is viable as a target platform - as one of several - but that does not mean implementing in JForex but perhaps writing an adaptor TO JForex.

The same could be said of cAlgo/cTrader - as an alternate target platform

Oh.. I see.. I was not aware jforex was limited to so few brokers, although I've just done a google on it, and it seems FXDD and Alpari(US) offer it. I'm surprised it's so developed and generally standardized as a platform given its minimal adoption.

[Wiggy1965]

What are people thoughts about NinjaTrader.....?

It was one of the first PC based (non web) platforms i used over three years ago before i moved to Empty4....I moved to Empty4 because a on-line Forex education company i subscribed to at the start of my Forex journey used Ninja, but moved to Empty4.....I and many others on the Site hated Empty4 as Ninja had many pro's, it was faster and you could drag SL and TP lines to mention a few....I don't know how powerful it's programming language is or it's back tester, so cant comment

In regards to Metacrap, this seems to me to be very much like the way Microsoft was behaving over 10 years ago with forcing people to use Internet Explorer and Oulook, do people remember this....They would make it impossible to install other browsers and email clients....Anyway, the US government charged them with predatory behaviors and forced to remove the locks.... It may only be a matter of time before Metaquotes comes to attention of the US government for similar predatory behaviors and are forced to unwind what it is doing....

I found a link to the Metaquotes contacts pages, so maybe we could all send a message detailing our objections as a starter....see below

http://www.metaquotes.net/en/company/contacts

One more thing, i have seen mass protest of a product and or service in that past and one suggestion could be a rolling campaign where we as traders refuse to take trades on a particular day...This could (if enough people were involved) put financial pressure on the brokers, who intern would put financial pressure on Metaquotes... Obviously, this would need to take some organising and would require the use of social media.... If social media can bring down a government, then surly it can be used to change the behavior of a company....

Just some thoughts.....

Wiggy

[slipshod]

As a broker I have sent an email to CTrader to find out about costs and implementation. Hopefully they've made it easy for brokers to adopt and we can start testing the sucker out.

That is great news

[camelx0]

Looks like the first dominoes have fallen with Tradency ceasing their relationship with MetaQuotes after being accused of hacking: http://forexmagnates.com/the-metaquotes ... f-hacking/

ZuluTrade and others are also irritated now so maybe this is the kick start we were looking for.

I like NinjaTrader as well and looks like there's some development with an API from Spotware but for cTrader:
http://forexmagnates.com/spotware-adds- ... he-market/

I enjoyed Empty4 when I started out until I started to get more serious with development and backtesting, etc. This is when I discovered a lot of "limitations" that got gradually introduced over time to make it harder to integrate. Now with my signals from ZuluTrade getting interrupted with connectivity issues blamed on the last terminal upgrade, I had it with them as well.

[jakatarung]

As long new alternative platform support fibonacci retracement indicator.. i'll jump in where GP will go too...