10.4 A Complete System

[SteveHopwood]

I ended the week about 12 pips up.

Noname.gif

I misunderstood a couple of thingies when I started - hence that CADJPY trade at the start. The AUDUSD loser happened because my sl was too tight - a looser one would have left me in the trade and able to close out at BE at worst.

The final closures are end or week closures leaving me flat over the weekend - probably a good idea at the mo. I know I said I would not be trading this week in my weekly roundup, but I could not resist.

Nice one Bob. This is your best yet.

I hesitate over this next bit, because it is controversial.

Here goes.

The trades in the pic come from my live GP trading account, not a demo account. Of late, I have come to trust only live-money account trading. BASA, for example, is running on my really tiny Cowboy IBFX play-money account - the equivalent of depositing an untradable $50 with GP.

For me, demo trading has proven a waste of time for years. It is too easy to walk away from a demo account and start again, thinking, "I would not trade live the way I did on this demo, so it is ok to experiment."

Trouble is, my 'experiments' led nowhere because there were no consequences when I walked away from a demo. I did not learn from my mistakes.

We all read the advice: "Never trade with money you cannot afford to lose." Yet, in the early stages how many of us actually can afford to lose our initial stake? Not may, I am prepared to bet. For sure, I could not when I started. Still lost it.

These days, I can. So, I do not take anything seriously unless I am trading it on one of my live-money trading accounts. Ziggy Bolly has gotten nowhere near.

Just because I can afford to lose my deposits does not mean I want to. Far, far, far from it. I want them to grow, multiply and be fruitful. What I am finding is this: trading actual live cash concentrates my mind.

Another mantra we read is: "You can learn more from analysing your failed trades than you can from your successful ones." I only learned the meaning of this once I stopped demo trading and insisted only on live trading. Losing real, hard cash concentrates the mind.

Um. Not sure how I started on this as I intended posting my trades for the week and leaving at that. I am just hoping that the message of some of the lessons I have learned the hard way will resonate with later comers and cut short the learning process for some of them. I would have saved a fair few dollars had this forum existed when I started trading in 2006.

Dr Who would have an interesting paradox to solve if it had.

[SteveHopwood]

Actually if you were to think about it, and enough dough to cover, you can always wait long enough to close your trades at break even, so there will never be any losses

Tell that to the guy who shorted EURUSD at 0.8562. In 2002.

Listen fella. I know this is hard for you Yanks to hear sometimes, so brace yourself.


Ready?




Here goes?






Forex traders need patience.

[garyfritz]

What I am finding is this: trading actual live cash concentrates my mind.

Agree 1000%! And as you said, losing actual cash REALLY concentrates the mind...

You learn 10x more trading real cash than you do trading demo. Because you pay much closer attention.

[ianp]

Glad it's not just me that's had a crappy week, typical august

I decided a long time ago I would try to be honest about my trading. To let traders know the ups and downs of this business. March, April, May, I was having the best trading months of my career. Did some things I had never done before. Averaging around 50% increase a month. Then June July August came around and it has been up and down.

Looks like the old stockbroker saying is right for trading FX .

Sell in May and go away , don't buy again until St Ledgers day.. (which is Sept 11th)....

[kwanann]

@gary,

Haha well the poor guy will still be waiting, it might go there, it might no, it's all in the game. What goes up will come down

That said if anyone really did that they MUST have loads of patience and dough

@steve

For most EA they will forever remain in demo since its more of a hobby for me. I do advocate playing demo in the way it IS intended to, not how those buggers wish you to play (think infinite cash, full lot trades, creating new demo when you lose everything)

Treat demo LIKE real hard cash. if you can do that, demo IS cash and you will learn at zero risk to real money. If you can't, well its the same ol as everyone.

Treat real cash as demo cash as well, don't get frustrated by a string of losses, go take a break if you need to, then come back and look and see what's wrong. In the meantime remember not to do anything.. Stupid.. (like opening a full lot trade, jumping off the roof etc)

That's the mentality I took with the red pill, demo cash. All the usual trader's mentality: TP all wayy early, sucker psychology and everything, but I managed to double it. Took it back to live after since I see no point doubling fake money and well... 150% increase in my live account in 2 weeks

[SteveHopwood]

Treat demo LIKE real hard cash.

How? It is not hard cash.

When I pay a bill, the has to be cash in my account if I am using my bank card. I have to hand over cash if I am paying by cash. Said cash had to come from somewhere.

A demo is just a demo. It is not hard cash.

[kwanann]

Would be nice if that ever came about!

Imagine I created a one million demo, said cash can pay for loads of stuff

I meant as in treat demo cash like real cash in your Empty4 account

[SteveHopwood]

I meant as in treat demo cash like real cash in your Empty4 account

I know what you meant, but I have learned to tell the emotional difference between trading hard cash and pretending to to treat demo cash in the same way.

I am glad you have learned to do so. I would be happily prepared to bet a tenner that not many others would be able to do so.

[kwanann]

Heehee

Some news about syria, missile launches this weekend anyone?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... pened.html

[nanningbob]

I ended the week about 12 pips up.

Noname.gif

I misunderstood a couple of thingies when I started - hence that CADJPY trade at the start. The AUDUSD loser happened because my sl was too tight - a looser one would have left me in the trade and able to close out at BE at worst.

The final closures are end or week closures leaving me flat over the weekend - probably a good idea at the mo. I know I said I would not be trading this week in my weekly roundup, but I could not resist.

Nice one Bob. This is your best yet.

I hesitate over this next bit, because it is controversial.

Here goes.

The trades in the pic come from my live GP trading account, not a demo account. Of late, I have come to trust only live-money account trading. BASA, for example, is running on my really tiny Cowboy Cowboy IBFX play-money account - the equivalent of depositing an untradable $50 with GP.

For me, demo trading has proven a waste of time for years. It is too easy to walk away from a demo account and start again, thinking, "I would not trade live the way I did on this demo, so it is ok to experiment."

Trouble is, my 'experiments' led nowhere because there were no consequences when I walked away from a demo. I did not learn from my mistakes.

We all read the advice: "Never trade with money you cannot afford to lose." Yet, in the early stages how many of us actually can afford to lose our initial stake? Not may, I am prepared to bet. For sure, I could not when I started. Still lost it.

These days, I can. So, I do not take anything seriously unless I am trading it on one of my live-money trading accounts. Ziggy Bolly has gotten nowhere near.

Just because I can afford to lose my deposits does not mean I want to. Far, far, far from it. I want them to grow, multiply and be fruitful. What I am finding is this: trading actual live cash concentrates my mind.

Another mantra we read is: "You can learn more from analysing your failed trades than you can from your successful ones." I only learned the meaning of this once I stopped demo trading and insisted only on live trading. Losing real, hard cash concentrates the mind.

Um. Not sure how I started on this as I intended posting my trades for the week and leaving at that. I am just hoping that the message of some of the lessons I have learned the hard way will resonate with later comers and cut short the learning process for some of them. I would have saved a fair few dollars had this forum existed when I started trading in 2006.

Dr Who would have an interesting paradox to solve if it had.

Yeah it was a rough week. The only reason I made 3% was because 1%+ was from playing the bounce off of the xxx.00 line of the gbp/aud all week. I got 5+ trades between 50-80 pips on that one. The rest I did well on aud and nzd sells.

Live money is the only way to go. I agree whole-heartedly with you. I basically quit demo trading after the first year. I only use the test program to see if an EA works. Of course I had to blow my first 2000 dollars to learn that trading with 300 bucks was the way to learn. If you cant make 300 grow to 600 you cant make 5000 grow to 10,000. Once I learned to grow 300 to 600 did I try trading over a 1000. Once I learned to trade 1000 to 2000 then I started putting some serious money up. There is a mentality to trading with live money that changes with demo trading. I remember trading 50K accounts demo trading and I would double and triple them. I then would take 300 bucks and lose it in a week. LOL I learned you cant learn FOREX trading 50K demo accounts. You can do things with those you would never do with a live account. I remember my 100x40 EA, demo traded that for 6 months and 10 times my account. Started a live account and put that baby on there. HA HA HA OCT. 2008 hit. Bye bye account. Didnt last 5 days. I can understand demo trading to get used to a system but live trading pennies is the only way to really learn.

I also remember when I first learned what a market open was. In China I didnt teach from 12-3 in the afternoon, the time between jpy 2nd half and euro open. It was so easy to trade. The eur/usd would go up 10-15 pips and then go down 10-15 pips and go up 10-15 pips. Dang it took it an hour each way but what the heck at a 1.00 a pip I was knocking down 25-40 bucks a day. That was 200-300 rmb a day back then which was more than I was making as a teacher in China. Most Chinese made less than a 50 rmb a day back then so it was good money for China and I only had 500 USD in my account. So here I am trading and all of a sudden WHAM, price shoots up 150 points in about 30 seconds. That was 1/3 of my account or over a weeks worth of work. What the ......................??? Anyway I wondered what the heck happened and I got on the internet and found FF and order Peter Bain's course "TRADING LIKE THE BIG DOGS* I learned about JPY open, EURO open, and USD open. I learned that the hard way. But you dont forget the tuition you pay to learn that stuff. Real money imprints things on your mind that a demo doesnt. I lose demo money I may not have done the research or paid money for a decent FOREX course.

One final thought Steve. What is wrong with the Brits this time? Dont want to go on another Middle East escapade with the dumb Yanks again???????????? Looks like were going to take the French with us this time. I think the Russians are right, we are monkey with a hand grenade in our hands. Sorry for the political crap but couldn't resist.